Bokeh is dead - Long live SOFA!

[CMur12]

right, but hardly anybody does. Just googled for 'bokeh pronunciation' and the most often stated explanation says:
'bo' as in 'bow' or 'arrow' and 'ke' as in 'kettle'
which imo got the 'bo' part wrong. It should not be a diphthong sound as in 'bow', but a short 'o'. The diphthong sound makes it sound like an American word very unlike the Japanese original. So does a sound sample given on youtube which additionally makes the 'ke' somewhat into 'kay'.

my take would be 'bo' as in Bolivia and 'ke' as in Kentucky.

listen to a sound file where it's pronunciation is explained and where one can repeatedly hear it pronounced correctly:
http://www.martinbaileyphotography....tion-meaning-and-practical-use-podcast-181-2/

Once a word is "borrowed" into another language, it fits into the phonetics of the receiving language. Unless both languages have equivalent sounds, changes in pronunciation are normal and inevitable.

In English, we don't have a pure vowel for the closed "o" or the closed "e." We only have "ou" and "ei" diphthongs. English speakers who don't speak Japanese are not going to pronounce the word as it is in Japanese any more than we pronounce other borrowed words exactly like they are pronounced in their languages of origin. They are now part of the English language and are pronounced accordingly.

I might point out that the Japanese modify the pronunciation of English words borrowed into Japanese to fit their own phonetics, as do other languages that borrow English words. This is a universal phenomenon.

- Murray

 

[Steve Bellayr]

We know what BOKEH is. Changing the word is confusing.

 

[coelacanth]

Once a word is "borrowed" into another language, it fits into the phonetics of the receiving language. Unless both languages have equivalent sounds, changes in pronunciation are normal and inevitable.

In English, we don't have a pure vowel for the closed "o" or the closed "e." We only have "ou" and "ei" diphthongs. English speakers who don't speak Japanese are not going to pronounce the word as it is in Japanese any more than we pronounce other borrowed words exactly like they are pronounced in their languages of origin. They are now part of the English language and are pronounced accordingly.

I might point out that the Japanese modify the pronunciation of English words borrowed into Japanese to fit their own phonetics, as do other languages that borrow English words. This is a universal phenomenon.

- Murray

That's how I take these things as well.

I'm a Japanese guy and I pronounce Bokeh as Bohemian + Kettle (With emphasis on Bo. In Japanese it's pretty much flat), but I pronounce Nikon Naikon, Ikea Aikia like most Americans do, and then Moleskine with "e" at the end.

 

[kuuan]

Once a word is "borrowed" into another language, it fits into the phonetics of the receiving language. Unless both languages have equivalent sounds, changes in pronunciation are normal and inevitable.

In English, we don't have a pure vowel for the closed "o" or the closed "e." We only have "ou" and "ei" diphthongs. English speakers who don't speak Japanese are not going to pronounce the word as it is in Japanese any more than we pronounce other borrowed words exactly like they are pronounced in their languages of origin. They are now part of the English language and are pronounced accordingly.

I might point out that the Japanese modify the pronunciation of English words borrowed into Japanese to fit their own phonetics, as do other languages that borrow English words. This is a universal phenomenon.

- Murray

That's how I take these things as well.

I'm a Japanese guy and I pronounce Bokeh as Bohemian + Kettle (With emphasis on Bo. In Japanese it's pretty much flat), but I pronounce Nikon Naikon, Ikea Aikia like most Americans do, and then Moleskine with "e" at the end.

Yes, but 'Boke' is not only used by English speakers but by photographers all over the world. As a German speaker 'natively' I would pronounce 'boke' more close to the Japanese original than to an anglicized version, also say 'Nikon', never "Naikon' and I believe both holds true for the majority of languages. If you asked for an 'Aikea' in most parts of the world people wouldn't know what you want.
'Boke' is an international word and to be best understood by all it best be pronounced similarly by all, agreed? I definitely don't see why anybody should have to try to mimic an anglicized pronunciation which furthermore sounds foreign and unnatural, I certainly won't. Imo obviously it best be pronounced as close as possible to the original.

 

[CMur12]

Kuuan, I don't think you understood what I wrote.

Each language that adopts the word "Bokeh" will pronounce it reasonably close to the Japanese original, but it will be within the paradigm of the borrowing language's phonology. Each language will pronounce it a little differently, some closer to the original than others by virtue of their native phonology.

This is how it works when one language borrows a word or phrase from another. It isn't just English speakers who do this.

Take the "coyote" in English. This was originally a Nahuatl Indian word, "cóyotl." When the Spanish borrowed it, they made changes to it so that they could pronounce it like Spanish. When it was borrowed into English from Spanish, it was changed even more. To pronounce this word correctly now, can we use the current English pronunciation, should we use the Spanish pronunciation, or must we accurately replicate the original Nahuatl pronunciation? According to your logic, everyone who uses this word must use the original Nahuatl pronunciation and they must do it perfectly.

- Murray

 

[kuuan]

English speakers may not be able to and nobody expects them to pronounce 'angst', 'bauhaus' 'zeitgeist' asf. exactly as Germans do. Nevertheless they will try their best, it's good they do and the better they achieve it the better they will be understood. Murray what I am saying is that everybody should try his best to pronounce 'boke' as close as he can to the original because for international scientific terms this not only is most desirable culturally but also the common practice for good practical reasons.

 

[Samouraï]

folks can put their own language's spin on the word as long as it's reasonably close to the original. that's just how language works. most are close enough in the states (though i hear bo-kuh an awful lot). if you start dropping native pronunciation of all foreign words into your everyday english, it'll get pretty tiring for everyone.

i think the main thing to take away from this is that bokeh is a lovely word for oof renderings. using the term sofa in lieu of bokeh is almost anti-intellectual in its reasoning.

 

[Pherdinand]

Haha.
Samourai just called me dumb.

 

[noisycheese]

Ruben Blaedel invented a much better one: SOFA. Let me quote him:
"I have renamed Bokeh to SOFA - A sofa should be soft and comfortable and Soft Off-Focus Areas or Silky Off Focus Areas gives more meaning to me than Bokeh "

I don't understand; what is the point of this word inventing?

Bokeh is the long ago established term for the out of focus areas of a photograph. The word Bokeh works just fine for its intended purpose and is universally recognized in the world of photography. I see no valid need or reason for this renaming. The old adage "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" comes to mind.

Mr. Blaedel has too much free time on their hands is my guess.

 

[Pherdinand]

Hey guys-

What's worse than taking a joke seriously?
Taking a 10 years old joke seriously.