BREXIT: UK members might want to consider GAS before the June 23 referendum
- Thread starter lynnb
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 505
- Views 38K
- Status
telenous
Well-known
Hello Panayioti,
About Brexit, I agree fully with Ian Watts' reply to you and his subsequent posts. I am also inclined to think that you needn't worry about deportation, there are certainly signs that things are not going to change any time soon, if at all. Based on latest developments I think we are about to see the grandest, boldest, most magnificent (with feathers on the hat) political about-facing (what you and I and everyone in Greece calls "kolotoumba"), the likes of which we haven't seen since the greek referendum last year. I was just reading an interesting FB post by journalist David Allen Green to that effect, and it's not just him. (It's a big post, so it will be more economical to just give a link: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1200279093330132&id=137432829614769 ) If things go that way, well, fine. At the same time, it must recognized that there is no greater help one can give to "anti-systemic" (racist, stalinist, fascist etc) forces than interpreting a political result in an opportunistic manner. Petty politicians have been sowing the wind, we'll all harvest the whirlwind.
On the subject of the Thomsen-Vesculescu Wikileak I 'll just point out that your interpretation of the leaked discussion is very close to the one favoured by the current greek government and that's a debatable reading to say the least. I don't think, for example, they were devising a credit event. Note also, on the contentious topic of debt relief, the IMF is on the greek side. But it presses also for economic reforms that are perceived as liberal. That's something that doesn't go down well either with the government or, to be honest, with the majority of people here. Reforms are perceived as poisoned chalice, and the current government will do anything to avoid them.
.
DrMcCoy
Member
Interocitors at the ready 😀
Cal, are you going to work naked again?
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hmmm, that data was dodgy and I don't know how anyone can tell what people voted for or against because it's a secret ballot. As usual, looking around I see they are linking things up like the average age and the poll result. Then adding to the mix.
I was looking out of the window a while ago and saw some post arrive; turned back and the computer screen had frozen and I had a full blown crash to deal with. Pollsters would blame the crash on the letter or letter writer or the postman... Worse still people would believe them.
Regards, David
David Hughes
David Hughes
BTW< a friend of mine reported the first price rise blamed on the referendum yesterday. I'm wondering how many more will follow and how soon...
DrMcCoy
Member
I'm just making sure here - y'all know about margin of error in polls, right? And how an 'exit poll' works?
The vote was only divided by 4% - that's an easy portion to skew accidentally. If, for instance, over half the polls were taken in areas that were more than 50% in the "Remain" camp - then even a projected MoE of +/-3% would be useless.
Aside from this, the referendum was flat out unpredictable because you even had voters who threw in ballots for the "Remain" because they thought there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell it would go through. Then were remorseful when it did.
Blaming the accuracy and agenda of polls here is just being willfully ignorant and divisive.
The vote was only divided by 4% - that's an easy portion to skew accidentally. If, for instance, over half the polls were taken in areas that were more than 50% in the "Remain" camp - then even a projected MoE of +/-3% would be useless.
Aside from this, the referendum was flat out unpredictable because you even had voters who threw in ballots for the "Remain" because they thought there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell it would go through. Then were remorseful when it did.
Blaming the accuracy and agenda of polls here is just being willfully ignorant and divisive.
Wulfthari
Well-known
A confirmation they are serious candidates for the Darwin award: they voted the Tories for decades and then they blame the EU for the mess.
Also, the Brexiters' idol is Margaret Thatcher herself, the woman who wanted the UK out of the EU and responsible for the industrial desertification of the North..ironic isn't it?
I need to check after work, am I authorised to post live ebay auctions here or will it cause the self destruction of the thread?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
If only....
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
There is a nice German saying: "Reisende soll man nicht aufhalten."
Roughly translated: You shall not delay the traveler.
The British want out. Let them. We'll stay friends.
Roughly translated: You shall not delay the traveler.
The British want out. Let them. We'll stay friends.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I'm not sure they do. A lot of them wanted to "send a message", never dreaming they'd win. Well, there were the out and out racists, too.
Cheers,
R.
Wulfthari
Well-known
Mmm...she changed idea in 1990:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2001/uk_and_europe/1979_1990.stm
Let's face it, she was the first Brexiter.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not really. After all, who do you think she was opposing in 1975? If everyone had been in favour, she wouldn't have needed to make that speech.
Many people (including me) believe that the Maggon started out fairly sane but went progressively mad during her time in office. I'm not talking about her Alzheimers: I'm talking about her delusions of grandeur, which were well advanced by the time Honest John Major gave her the push in 1990.
Cheers,
R.
Wulfthari
Well-known
I am old enough to remember her hysterical speech and the European Conference in 1990, that was kind of funny and explains why Junker said it was "never a great love story".
Photog9000
Well-known
Truer words were never spoken, David!!
valdas
Veteran
I don't really get this elite vs everyone else stuff... Really? So who is Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage? Are they poor proletarians? Yes, the whole world including EU is ****d up because of various reasons (one can read "Saving Capitalism" by Robert Reich - a bit of education). So what do we do? We set our own house on fire to "send the message". Because that's what they did. And now they are saying "we did not start the fire..." (surprise surprise, after the referendum Nigel Farage says Britain heading for recession 'regardless of Brexit').
rumbliegeos
Well-known
What troubles me the most about the vote, and other current political trends in many places, is the willingness of very large numbers of people to make choices with extremely unpredictable outcomes. I'm not completely risk-averse, but I like to have at least some sense of the odds of success at the end of a major transition. The "anything would be better than the status quo" attitude seems to have a siginificant lemming potential built into it.
Wulfthari
Well-known
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Exactly. To many, "elite" is just a general term of abuse. The same people tend to use "liberal" and "progressive" as terms of abuse, too; often, in a meaning that is directly opposed to any normal meaning of the word. All three words are commonly used to mean "anyone I can't understand, or don't agree with." Are "elite" photographers bad? "Elite" special forces (SAS, Seals, etc.)? Do we want to be regressive and illiberal? I don't.
Cheers,
R.
Tompas
Wannabe Künstler
I'm quite sure everyone in Britain knows what a vote means -- the 'Brexiteers' knew very well what they were doing.
And for those who did not, here's another German saying (and principle in law): "Unwissenheit schützt vor Strafe nicht."
Roughly: Ignorance is no excuse.
- Status