BREXIT: UK members might want to consider GAS before the June 23 referendum

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Tompas said:
I'm quite sure everyone in Britain knows what a vote means -- the 'Brexiteers' knew very well what they were doing.

And for those who did not, here's another German saying (and principle in law): "Unwissenheit schützt vor Strafe nicht."

Roughly: Ignorance is no excuse.
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Underline: They just didn't believe it would matter, because they thought they were going to lose anyway. See https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...lly-concedes-defeat-just-minutes-polls-close/ and elsewhere.

Cheers,

R.
 
This forum is a great place to gain knowledge about a certain type of photography, but when it devolves to matters of history, economics, good governance, or the inherent nature of humanity, all of which are inextricably intertwined, the discussions are invariably cringeworthy.
After 450 posts, now that everybody knows who hates each other for their convictions, can we please go back to firmer ground, emulsions and developers, lenses, perhaps. Anything.

Of course not, not when there are more bad books to recommend that our enemies read, and forum members that we can call lemmings, and so on. Maybe time to give it a rest before it becomes even more embarrassing, if that's even possible at this point.
 
I just checked ebay.de and I realised I won't be buying anything there anytime soon.

A pity because I was eyeing a CZJ Sonnar 200mm f2.8 with electric connectors for my Praktica VLC3.

I hate Johnson and Farage.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
Yes.

This forum is a great place to gain knowledge about a certain type of photography, but when it devolves to matters of history, economics, good governance, or the inherent nature of humanity, all of which are inextricably intertwined, the discussions are invariably cringeworthy.
After 450 posts, now that everybody knows who hates each other for their convictions, can we please go back to firmer ground, emulsions and developers, lenses, perhaps. Anything.

Of course not, not when there are more bad books to recommend that our enemies read, and forum members that we can call lemmings, and so on. Maybe time to give it a rest before it becomes even more embarrassing, if that's even possible at this point.
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Dear Larry,

Sorry, but I disagree completely. The wonderful thing about discussing "history, economics, good governance, or the inherent nature of humanity" with other forum members here is that they are not preselected by their political views: in other words, the forum is not an echo chamber for those who do not want to hear any views other than their own, or those that closely resemble their own.

"Bad" books? You mean, ones you disagree with? 'Cos I doubt that every recommendation here is "bad".

If discussions like this make you unhappy, stay out of them. What will you lose if you do? Only the right to point out that trivial lens choices matter more to you than political and economic crises.

Cheers,

R.
 
Wulfthari said:
I just checked ebay.de and I realised I won't be buying anything there anytime soon.

A pity because I was eyeing a CZJ Sonnar 200mm f2.8 with electric connectors for my Praktica VLC3.

I hate Johnson and Farage.
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You think you've got problems. I've got to buy food and pay for repairs to my car (new alternator). Missing a lens is not so important.


Cheers,

R.
 
photomoof said:
Roger your first 2 points are what makes these "discussions" so difficult for me personally.

I live in sight of major public housing, where probably 10,000 families are on some form of public assistance. They are my neighbors. I go to "our" Post Office, and I swim in "our" public pool, I ride "our" subway with them. I see and talk to "them" everyday, some I speak to as neighborhood friends.

I very aware, that despite my humble origins, I a member of the "elite," if for no other reason than my education.

But as I am sure you respect all of those around you, as I try to. I don't enjoy this evil divide many politicians are encouraging.
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Certainly I respect them as human beings, and (if we are friends) as friends. There are not many in the village with degrees: locally the educated "elite" tends to be Parisian second home owners, for whom I have the same respect as I do for my nearest neighbour who lives here all year 'round (a not-very-competent jobbing builder) or the man we sit next to at the old folks' dinners (a retired postman).

My closest friends in the UK -- the sort of people you eat and drink with, or stay with and have to stay with you -- include a retired carpenter, a hairdresser, a police analyst, a small builder, a production engineer and someone who used to run a restaurant. Not a degree among them. Some have quite a lot of money (inherited, except in the case of the hairdresser -- the carpenter had a rich godmother who left him a house): some, next to none.

This is what I find so vile about the casual use of "elite" as an insult, just as you do. What makes anyone "elite"?

Respecting people, though, does not necessarily mean respecting their views; and if enough their views are extreme enough and vile enough (especially racism and bigotry) then it probably means I don't respect the person either. If I do respect them, and disagree, I'll try to change their minds. If I don't respect them, then at least on the forum, I find the "ignore" function useful.

Cheers,

R.
 
FrozenInTime said:
Re-enforcing that stereotype; taken just after the Scottish referendum :
A vote for Independent Scotland poster on a council flat; complete with Iron Brew can in the loose trash discarded by the door, just below the essential satellite dish.

I think an independent Scotland - within an imploding EU is an even worse idea.

VoteScotland-1.jpg
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That's it? I'm moving to Scotland, it's a grade up!

article-1370852-0389D2E5000005DC-991_634x395.jpg
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Larry,

Sorry, but I disagree completely. The wonderful thing about discussing "history, economics, good governance, or the inherent nature of humanity" with other forum members here is that they are not preselected by their political views: in other words, the forum is not an echo chamber for those who do not want to hear any views other than their own, or those that closely resemble their own.

"Bad" books? You mean, ones you disagree with? 'Cos I doubt that every recommendation here is "bad".

If discussions like this make you unhappy, stay out of them. What will you lose if you do? Only the right to point out that trivial lens choices matter more to you than political and economic crises.

Cheers,

R.
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Roger,

To clarify, nothing here makes me unhappy. Also, I don't define bad books as ones I disagree with, though that is an effectively dismissive way to demean me, and, you are right, I won't lose anything if I go away. Nor will anyone else. Are there no bad books? Nothing in print that is actually wrong? Another discussion entirely, which some people here would, I am sure, argue.

Which was pretty much the point I was attempting to make. Lots of heat here, very little light. It's not just this forum, or group of people; it's the nature of the internet.

Is it fair to say that 'trivial lens choices' mean more to me than the consequences of world governance? That seems unnecessarily harsh, and inaccurate as well. Sorry if I gave that impression. I do understand more about good governance than I do about lenses, which explains why I spend the time on this forum that I do.

I was once a Trotskyite. My understanding of the world has evolved over time through a heuristic approach to knowledge precisely because I have never needed or desired an echo chamber.

The subset of people who think they understand a subject is exponentially larger than the subset of people who actually understand a subject. I guess that was my underlying point. And, yes, I guess that's a rude fact to bring up in the middle of a discussion when that larger subset of people is going at it hammer and tongs.

My intentions were good, asking only , in the immortal words of Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?" But, deep down I should have realized my post was going to be seen as just another perverse version of poking a rabid dog with a stick.

Roger, you have been invaluable to me over time, and are right about many things which have helped me become a better photographer, I hope. You are also right that I should leave this particular thread, as my attempt at a contributiion was not particularly well received. I knew better than to make the attempt, so, it's on me.

Best Wishes, sincerely,

Larry
 
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Hi,

The trouble with words like 'elite' is that they need a modifier with them, mostly because the organisation or society they are in needs to be mentioned. I think we all know that when discussing lenses or technicians or photographers f'instance.

Regards, David
 
Roger Hicks said:
... "Bad" books? You mean, ones you disagree with? 'Cos I doubt that every recommendation here is "bad"...

R.
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Not interested in the subject of Brexit particularly, but as a library mouse, I need to say something about books: Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra though the voice of Don Quixote de la Mancha said it very well: " Sancho, even bad books teach us something, that there are bad books."
 
Actual Quixote's quotes

Actual Quixote's quotes

"Aún entre los demonios hay unos peores que otros, y entre muchos malos hombres suele haber alguno bueno".

"Even among demons, some are worse than others, and among many bad men, there used to be at least one good one."



"No hay libro tan malo que no tenga algo bueno".

"There is no such a bad book that does not have at least something good."



Don Quixote
 
Tompas said:
I'm quite sure everyone in Britain knows what a vote means -- the 'Brexiteers' knew very well what they were doing.

And for those who did not, here's another German saying (and principle in law): "Unwissenheit schützt vor Strafe nicht."

Roughly: Ignorance is no excuse.
Click to expand...

From the reaction both of the voters and the political "leaders" of the brexit I get the feeling neither of them had any clue at all what would happen or what to do if they won.
 
I have spoken to at least three people who say they dont know why they voted out , all of them in the building trade as I am , I am guessing new house building will come to a standstill within two months , as soon as builders realize that no one is prepared to buy a house with such financial turmoil . I am sorry to say that I think people that voted out are very stupid and I am very bitter because I will have a very hard time myself.
 
13Promet said:
I'm not sure about this.
A tax-free border would be mutual, and AFAIK UK is importing from Germany, France and Italy much more than it is exporting to them.
Therefore, it would be in main EU conuntries advantage to keep a tax-free goods exchange.
We can expect EU to folllow this route unless they really whish to punish UK.

Bottom line it would be, as we use to say, "to rip off your balls in order to punish your wife".
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I salute you. All we have is "to cut off your nose to spite your face."
 
Roger Hicks said:
I'm not sure they do. A lot of them wanted to "send a message", never dreaming they'd win. Well, there were the out and out racists, too.

Cheers,

R.
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One of the things I really don't understand about it (one of many). Is that they wanted to "send a message" to our government...after voting them in...and chose an issue that affects Europe rather than directly our govt.

There's so many examples of this kind of backwards thinking around that honestly my fellow man is bordering on scary.
 
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