airfrogusmc
Veteran
I grew up in a very blue collar neighborhood on the south side of Chicago. None of my friends parents were college grads and everyone in my neighborhood was scraping by to make it. My father worked construction. Most of us from the old neighborhood put ourselves through college. I did. I hope that clears up the wealth issue. Many college grads in the US didn't come from $$$$.
Back to the issue is college grads have much higher employment rates in the US than non college grads.
Back to the issue is college grads have much higher employment rates in the US than non college grads.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
Yes, on the surface, yes.
Nevertheless, you cannot deny that you have thousands and thousands of young «overqualified» people who do «McJobs».
And unfortunately, this is something like an economical cancer, isn't it?
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I never said there weren't but the stats clearly show (see the link I posted) that in the US college grads have a much lower unemployment rate than non college grads. so the odds of you having a job and having a job that will actually support you is much better if you are a college grad than if yo are not.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
A really «informed consumer»? A horrifying idea!
Be honest, please: have you ever encountered that e.g. the salesperson in the sports-equipment store would have «informed» you, the customer, under which conditions the Adidas, the Nike, the Puma, the Reebok, etc., goods have been made?
BillBingham2
Registered User
Never asked, frankly, while it's an issue to me, it's not information that I look to get from them. I want to know what runs wide or narrow, do they have this style in a size 9 1/2, nothing more.
Some stores I look for more from salespeople, but it varies a lot by product, store and salespeople.
I did a bit of retail a few years back during a long bout of unemployment. I tried hard to help every everyone I interacted with. Several of my coworkers didn't have the knowledge of how to use the products, good ones could find the product, others just hid from customers.
Trying to bring the thread back to topic, potential students need to know about the school they want to attend and the classes they take.
B2 (;->
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
O.K., let's forget Nike et al., let's talk about photography!
Recently, another member of this forum tried to tell me, that it is an issue, whether or not East German or USSR cameras were made under an oppressive regime. (Hint: most of the aforementioned sports goods are manufactured in «sweatshops».)
Well, obviously they've been «UNINFORMED» consumers.
And that some of them were «informed» that they'll receive a scholarship or a stipend just months before, that's telling a lot, IMHO. «Shenanigans», to put it mildly.
oftheherd
Veteran
Many institutions of higher learning in the USA are good places to study and learn good things for a career. But if they aren't also businesses, they probably won't survive long. Students can get away with some unbelievable violations, as expelling them would impact the current money flow as well as future alumni contributions. An expelled student must be replaced or the loss is permanent for that graduating year.
So while I agree in principle Mr. Hicks, practically, there is a needed management. Ideally, it can make good business decisions, staying out of academics. In reality, there will be conflicts, and business will usually win out.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
If by «business/management» is meant, that «private universities» would be somehow superior, one must strongly disagree.
Just one striking example: The vast majority of US [140393406528] Nobel laureates have attended universities that are funded by public means; e.g.:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...filiated_with_the_City_University_of_New_York
Roger Hicks
Veteran
No. The word is "administration". This may seem like semantic nit-picking but it's very important. A university should never be a business, as the aim of a business -- making a profit -- is completely different from that of an educational establishment. Call administrators "managers" and they will start treating their superiors -- the academic staff, the whole reason for the existence of a university -- as inferiors.
Cheers,
R.
jvo
Established
yes, education for profit IS bad... like corporation' today who pursue the god of shareholder value (profit) exclusively. schools and coprporations need profit, but they also need to have other concerns as well, besides greed.
we used to beileve companies had a responsibility to the communities they operated in, their employees, etc. in addition to shareholder value.
just sayin'
jvo
Established
for profit education IS bad.
it is necessary for a school or corporation to make a profit; it needn't be the exclusive goal.. .
used to be they recognized the responsibility to the community they operated in, their responsibility to their employees, their students, to their mission, etc., not JUST shareholder value.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
In the US for the past thirty years there has been a movement to privatize all education, not just colleges. If you followed the trend over the past 50 years the value of a college education has dropped. Not only is the type of degree obtained important but the school that you obtain it from is important. That is combined with the fact that an advanced degree has become mandatory in most, if not all, fields of study. Previously, someone wrote that a student should not be looked upon as a consumer but unfortunately, in the US, when so much dollars are spent on education that is the norm.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Steve,
Indeed, "consumption" is the curse of our age. An economy predicated upon ever-increasing consumption must obviously grind to a halt sooner or later, and it would be a good idea to halt the rot before the crisis gets any worse. "The market" CANNOT solve this.
Cheers,
R.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
«Consumption» is such a marvellous word.
Doesn't it mean, amongst others, pulmonary phthisis?
And isn't a «consumption room» a place where junkies meet?
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
That's what you read into it? Pretty funny to me. :angel:
BillBingham2
Registered User
When ITT Tech started the owner balanced a reasonable profit, students, community, employess, etc. very well.
Profit is not a bad goal, the issue is more the investors who come to education and want the same return on investment (ROI) as say investing in Apple 20 years ago or Bank of America today. It's the dilution of investment share and competition for investors cash (to name just two) that has caused many of the issues with for profit education.
Same thing happened to Eastman Kodak. Frankly, it 5ucks.
B2 (;->
BillBingham2
Registered User
Often, public colleges budgets don't put money away for the unforeseen. This is because the budgets for public schools are often controlled by elected officials who are looking for cost control vs quality. It costs a lot to keep up with technology improvements. New issues or risks are being uncovered daily.
B2 (;->
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Bill,
What you're talking about is "reserves", NOT "profits" returned to those seeking an ROI. I cannot easily overstate the contempt I have for treating education like a business where profit is the be-all and end-all.
If "profit" is so important, why did we abolish slavery? Some things are more important than an ROI.
Cheers,
R.
tunalegs
Pretended Artist
It might, in a part of the world where for decades (just for example), railways needed to construct three different types of coaches to ensure different classes of people didn't have to suffer the unspeakable cruelty of sitting next to each other.