mfogiel
Veteran
Yes, I like photography, and FWIW I like to help other people get into it if they wish. However, I am not a professional photographer, and I do not consider myself an artist. I just feel the need to make photographs, and also possibly, as I age, to make them better.
As Back Alley has shrewdly noticed, there has been a certain inflation of "brutally honest critique" requirements lately.
It's not that I am in favour of not sharing advice or forcing people to remain ignorant by denying them tips, but my impression is that these requests miss the essential point: "ART" or "GOOD PHOTOGRAPH" needs above all to represent an internal need for expression, and the more curious, insightful, aberrant, original and non conventional your expression is, the more likely you are to make "ART".
Clearly, nobody gets born ready to produce masterpieces, so what's missing?
The (shooting - editing) feedback process. This is why printing and looking at these prints and throwing most of them away is so important.
Mike Johnston on his T.O.P. has put up a link to a very neat story about Duane Michal's Quantum photos, which I encourage you to read, particularly in order to get to the bottom, where Michals describes himself, and gives HIS tip about how to become an artist-photographer:
http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...graph-french-vogue-quantum-physics-heisenberg
Here's one of my recent favourites:
20149924 by mfogiel, on Flickr
As Back Alley has shrewdly noticed, there has been a certain inflation of "brutally honest critique" requirements lately.
It's not that I am in favour of not sharing advice or forcing people to remain ignorant by denying them tips, but my impression is that these requests miss the essential point: "ART" or "GOOD PHOTOGRAPH" needs above all to represent an internal need for expression, and the more curious, insightful, aberrant, original and non conventional your expression is, the more likely you are to make "ART".
Clearly, nobody gets born ready to produce masterpieces, so what's missing?
The (shooting - editing) feedback process. This is why printing and looking at these prints and throwing most of them away is so important.
Mike Johnston on his T.O.P. has put up a link to a very neat story about Duane Michal's Quantum photos, which I encourage you to read, particularly in order to get to the bottom, where Michals describes himself, and gives HIS tip about how to become an artist-photographer:
http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...graph-french-vogue-quantum-physics-heisenberg
Here's one of my recent favourites:
20149924 by mfogiel, on Flickr
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
That tip is a good one, are you asking for feedback on that picture though ?
mfogiel
Veteran
Haha, no, please don't bother with feedback. It's just that in my mind a photography forum should be about sharing photographs, so that's what I like to do here.
Lauffray
Invisible Cities
What's up with this critique stuff anyway, can't we go back to arguing about gear ? 
Pioneer
Veteran
I like the shot Marek.
Sorry but I'm not feeling particularly brutal today.
Sorry but I'm not feeling particularly brutal today.
MCTuomey
Veteran
appreciate your thoughts and found the article insightful in this regard: mr michals seems quite playful and child-like in his approach. i stand in need of taking myself much less seriously, i think.
i like how you caught the subject's face in the patch-work light, by the way.
i like how you caught the subject's face in the patch-work light, by the way.
John Bragg
Well-known
Great shot Marek. Keep up the good work. Like you, I shoot for the sheer joy of it, but I constantly strive to improve as I go. I love the light on this one and great skill in developing and scanning. Well done indeed !
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Is not the urge to improve your work somewhat an artistic outlook?
kuuan
loves old lenses
Marek thank you for that, specially for the quote at the bottom of the linked page. Pardon me for quoting it here, hopefully it doesn't make people lazy to read the short and very interesting page linked but instead makes them even more interested:
The artist part of the quote seems to be biting itself in the tail. If you 'really' don't try to be an artist, finding that what you are doing actually might be art becomes rather meaningless, has no significance. Still "don't try to be an artist" is a good advice, let others do the categorization and decide if they call it art or not, if they need to.
the significance to the "critique threads"?
I wonder if your certainly of "knowing", expressed by saying that it is either your "sharing advice" or "forcing people to remain ignorant", partly denies those who expose her/himself to be critiqued to claim what you, in the same sentence, point out to be the essential: the curious, insightful, aberrant, original and non conventional expression that comes from within.
For anyone who shows photos between question marks instead of in flying banners:
You are inviting others "to know better". Many will but not all and nobody in every respect. If you ask for advice there is much to be learned. The more you remain humble the more you will gain. Achieving that may prove a bigger challenge than anticipated. You will be shown what makes others tick Rather accept technical advice. Don't let anyone have the better of your 'within', make you doubt your original, non conventional expression. Smile, enjoy, stay and become even more steadfast from within
..........
P.S. one that I like, taken a few hours ago, I tend to like recent ones
"Don’t try to be an artist. Find the thing within you that needs to be expressed. You might find it is art."
The sentence in the middle seems crucial. I believe that every enthusiastic photographer knows that she/he is driven, that there is something within that needs to be expressed. At least if she bothers to rationalize.
The artist part of the quote seems to be biting itself in the tail. If you 'really' don't try to be an artist, finding that what you are doing actually might be art becomes rather meaningless, has no significance. Still "don't try to be an artist" is a good advice, let others do the categorization and decide if they call it art or not, if they need to.
the significance to the "critique threads"?
For me, who opened one of these threads, I realize what big a difference it makes to present a photos with the attitude: "look here, I am an accomplished photographer and here is one of my recent favorites" to presenting it under "please help me to improve". The former is elevating, the later degrading the photo to begin with.mfogiel said:
I wonder if your certainly of "knowing", expressed by saying that it is either your "sharing advice" or "forcing people to remain ignorant", partly denies those who expose her/himself to be critiqued to claim what you, in the same sentence, point out to be the essential: the curious, insightful, aberrant, original and non conventional expression that comes from within.
For anyone who shows photos between question marks instead of in flying banners:
You are inviting others "to know better". Many will but not all and nobody in every respect. If you ask for advice there is much to be learned. The more you remain humble the more you will gain. Achieving that may prove a bigger challenge than anticipated. You will be shown what makes others tick
Rather accept technical advice. Don't let anyone have the better of your 'within', make you doubt your original, non conventional expression. Smile, enjoy, stay and become even more steadfast from within..........
P.S. one that I like, taken a few hours ago, I tend to like recent ones