Building homebrew digital rangefinder camera, Looking for leica copy donor body

[2maneekameras]

After, a few years of contemplation, I am embarking on the task of building a home fabricated rangefinder digital camera. I am looking for a bottom load Leica copy to use as the external housing. I bought a Zorki c parts camera with this in mind, but it is too incomplete for my plans. It seems to be just the right size for what I have in mind. I want one that is complete visually from the out side with all the rangefinder objectives, knobs and shutter dials. The shutter doesn't need to work, but it would be a bonus if it did. I also need the bottom plate. I have the ccd and lenses that I need already. I plan to retrofit a stobe into an old flash gun( hopefully with the flashtube inside an actual flashbulb)so I want a camera with a flash pc connector on the body. The camera will be manually focused, with manual apperture settings as well. No lcd screen either, so the process will be similar to using a manual film camera. Suspense until uploading the images. I will post the progress of this project on the rff if I can come up with a donor body. A zorki c or 2c looking for a new home and mission would be preferred. A fed 2 would also be a possibility. Thanks!

 

[taffer]

Yeah ! Way to go !!!!!!!!!!! 😀
I think Huw Finney had also that in mind on his M2ad project (a digital M2) but his last words on that was that he got frustrated by the prices of ccd's the size he wanted to use.
I tried that myself as a very lousy experiment a while ago, must say I found fascinating when I got to the bare bone ccd of my lousy digital p&s.
I have no donor bodies, but if you can't find anything here, you sure have parts bodies on eBay Alex-Photo or Oleg.
Best of luck with this, and keep us posted !!!

PS: And I had to say this, I LOVE your avatar 😀

 

[RML]

No donors here either but ooh boy what a project!

 

[Socke]

sorry, no donors here as well. But a big thumbs up on your project!

 

[denishr]

Could we make it a swap/trade?
You said you have some vintage brass-bound lenses 🙂
And I have a FED 2 that I don't use - it has even acquired a kind of Internet fame, since it was the subject of my "The Hunt for Red October " essay... The self-timer doesn't work - it requires another disassembly to put it in order (no big deal), but I'm too lazy to disassemble it again.

Denis

 

[jorisbens]

That's going to be a hell of task putting a ccd and memory (or is it going to be used tethered?) in a zorki ;-) What size of CCD are you planning to use? This is a project that i'm very interested in (especially since the price of the epson rd-1)

Joris

 

[Azinko]

This is a really interesting topic about which I also have been wondering for some time.

As the Canon 300D is now being replaced with a better model, the 350 D , it will soon be showing up as a secondhand item with a quickly falling value. How difficult would it be to graft the sensor, memory, LCD and battery compartment to a r/f camera?...especially one with a dtachable back like Kiev,....essentially changing the back/bottom of each camera over.

A couple of months ago I was given a print out from a Uk university dept which examines production techniques, development methods and profitmargins etc,....i now wish very much that I had kept it! The info on digital cameras was VERY illuminating,...most of the digital SLRs in the £1000 bracket were given a 'production value' of about £200-£300. The Epson R-D1 was particularly sigled out as the only digital r/f and it was observed that developement costs had been minimal on this camera as both the basic £300 camera and digital £700 'guts' camera already existed as other models. The researchers noted the 9X profit margin!

 

[wlewisiii]

Be sure to keep us informed on your progress. I've pondered more than once the idea of doing something similar with a Kiev. It always seemed to me that modifying the removable back would be an easier proposition as well as allowing the same camera to used as either a film or digitial.

What CCD are you using and what are it's specifications?

Thanks,

William

 

[taffer]

Lousy FED-2 Digital, first pics

Lousy FED-2 Digital, first pics

Here are some shots from the first Digital Fed-2 I've seen 🙂 Just stripped down to the CCD my lousy bestbuy digital ps (no worries, all can still be easily put together again) and run this child experiment, placed the Fed-2 with the shutter locked open, closed focus at 0.9 m, an object (Nobita) at 30 cm or so and hold the CCD in the focal plane, moved back and forth until Nobita's face was sharp, seems the focus distance was reduced by a third or so ?

Note the extreme magnification, this CCD is around 0.5 x 0x25 cm. First shot is a paper clip I used first, on the second one you can see the lazy Nobita (notice the tiny tiny hair above his eye line, at first I thought it was a ccd fault!), on the third one you can see the whole setup.

So I'm heading for coffee. What's next ? 😛

 

[DHu]

I am suprised this thread didn't get more attention. I am very interested in seeing how these projects go. I always like it home-brewed. 😉

 

[taffer]

I wonder the same DHu 🙂 The Fed-2 is a nice guinea pig, removable back, plenty of them around, and dirty cheap.
Any donor bodies already 2manee ?

 

[jlw]

A couple of months ago I was given a print out from a Uk university dept which examines production techniques, development methods and profitmargins etc,....i now wish very much that I had kept it! The info on digital cameras was VERY illuminating,...most of the digital SLRs in the £1000 bracket were given a 'production value' of about £200-£300. The Epson R-D1 was particularly sigled out as the only digital r/f and it was observed that developement costs had been minimal on this camera as both the basic £300 camera and digital £700 'guts' camera already existed as other models. The researchers noted the 9X profit margin!

Yes, I would have been very interested to know what "university department" that was!

Of course, they're right, as university researchers always are. You can see it in the fact that the large manufacturers are quickly being driven out of the digital-camera market by mom-and-pop "cottage industry" operations that can produce exactly the same product for far lower cost by snapping together existing standardized components. Undoubtedly that's why Contax has suspended camera production, Leica is in financial trouble, etc... competition from homemade digital cameras.

 

[DaShiv]

There are tons of "no name" makers of small point-and-shoot cameras. With no intellectual patents protecting various rangefinder mounts (and certain SLR mounts as well), any of these companies could make a killing making a digital rangefinder (or an DSLR) if it were that easy to make them cheaply. Where there are profit margins, there will be people competing to exploit them, and the draw is greater the larger the margins are.

The demand for low-cost large-sensor cameras is very tangible. That there isn't the kind of competition from generics compared to what you'd find in the point-and-shoot market attests to the difficulty of making large, interchangable-lens cameras actually work. If someone could easily make and sell an R-D1 for $700 and still make a profit on it, we've be flooded with them by now, the way you can find cheap digital cameras in blister packs in Wal-Mart. Obviously, there are some significant obstacles in making certain types of cameras that require significant financial resources to clear.

As anyone who has done any sort of production knows -- I'm extrapolating from my experiences with book printing -- per-unit "production value" is a rather meaningless concept without taking into account factors like volume, yield and defect rates, etc, not to mention issues like actual design and engineering costs. And any honest academic would properly qualify and contextualize his statistics. Trying to extrapolate a product's "value" based on how much widget A and doodad B costs in parts is rather poor science.

And let's not forget the enormous price differences between, say, a Kiev or Fed and a Leica M, despite their functional similarities. 😀

All digital cameras that are near any sort of technological boundaries are "overpriced" right now to allow the companies to recoup their significant technological R&D costs, but the estimates you're passing on seem rather... off.

 

[2maneekameras]

STill no donor body. More of my thought /design process. I live richly on the cast-offs of others. I usually buy old, broken-but-fixable. or help people avoid disposal costs by removing unwanted objects when I have a use for them. I invest a lot of "sweat equity" rather than capital . This path has led to many interesting and sometimes complicated adventures. I use "trailing edge' electronics, but update as others do, so it is just as stimulating to get new-to-me gear, even if it is old to others. I never abandoned record players or flashbulbs, but I prefer live music and available light. My ideas for a trailing edge(but funktional and functional) retro rangerfinderdigital camera, are somewhat constrained by cost and self imposed limitations.
I chose a Zorki C as the desired body because I wanted it to look similar to a IIIx leica. Fed 2s are my favorite user FSU rangefinders . Specifically I chose the Zorki because it has a slightly taller top plate as opposed to a leica or fed 1or2. This gives me more room inside for the circutboard and electronics. Also, the top plate is one piece as opposed to several pieces in a fed one. I will have to make a different vf and the zorki has a separate rf and vf. A bottom load because i want to put battery compartment where the film spools go and don't want the internal parts as exposed when changing batteries. The zorki C has a flash pc connector which I want to use to connect an external flash. I hope to mount a zenon flash tube inside an 25b flashbulb shell and hide the electronics and battery in an old flashgun. My initial ccd will be one gleaned from a consumer p&s camera. If the prototype works as planned I will pursue a higher res-ccd. Since the ccd I initially will be using is considerablly smaller than the area of a 35mm negative, any lens built for 35mm use would be a long lens for this format. I have a few schneider lenses from an old movie camera, and a large cannon lens from a television video camera. These lenses are all c mount. I can machine my own Ltm-c mount adapter. I have seen c mount-leica adapters, but not the other way. If I have enough room inside the camera, I would like to be able to move the ccd within the circle of influence of the lens for a type of perspective control. Finally, I just like to make unusual, thought provoking artifacts. I want to post legit digital rangefinder -based images in a gallery here.

 

[taffer]

I like that way to go 2manee, and I also like to re-use things put down too soon by their owners, unfortunately when one doesn't live alone and has no workshop there are some restrictions in the amount of stuff one can bring home... 🙂

If the extra space on top is a plus, don't underestimate the Fed-2 long top (basically a Fed-3b in design), doesn't look like a SM Leica but has a one piece top with enough space, and a removable back, which may come in really handy to fit the CCD back there...

I suppose you're planning on a 'shutterless' body so the CCD takes care of the exposure. The CCD size from my P&S gives the extreme magnification you can see in my previous thread, and that was with the 50 mm !

Interesting project anyway, I'll try to do some more tests and let's see if I can find a dirt cheap but no so lousy digital to continue with this...

Edit: Just found this link... http://digitalcameras.hackaday.com/entry/1234000840022306/

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,15465,00.asp

 

[2maneekameras]

Thanks for the links. I considered using a Fed 2, it is my favorite of FSU rangefinders. I decided on the Zorki when comparing them side by side. I have considered making a digital back to alternate with a film back on the fed2. I may do this later. I will be removing the shuttercage on the first protype to provide more interior room. I was planning to let the CCD control exposure, but with the LSM body I have options. I have an old front element focusing anastigmat lens mounted in a compur leaf shutter. I may machine and adapter to optionally mount this lens to gain a manual shutter. I could also incorporate a leaf shutter into the LTM-C mount adapter.

 

[2maneekameras]

Thanks to the generousity of two rff members and the encouragement of several others, I have made progress in the collecting of the parts necessary to continue this project. I now have enough parts to assemble a complete external body shell(except for a few screws and the retaining trim ring for a zorkiC(S, or 2c) rangefinder exit pupil. I also now have a metal LTM body cap which I will machine into an adapter to accept cmount lenses. More to follow...

 

[atelier7]

2maneekameras, is this homebrew digital camera still going on? any progresss or has it fallen by the way side?

 

[2maneekameras]

I haven't had time to assemble the actual device yet, but I have accumulated all of the major components to date. i will probably not get it assembled until this winter.

 

[atelier7]

any update on this project?