burnin curtains-how easily?

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itf

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So, I recently got a Leica M4-2 and I'm loving it. The shutter sound, the feel of the camera, being able to focus again (I've come from a bessa r with destroyed rangefinder). However, I'm paranoid about the curtains at the moment. Worried that I'll burn holes in them.

Just how easy is it to burn holes in them? Can I walk around with the lens cap off provided the camera isn't pointed at the sun (but on a sling, so maybe some sky in view)? Can I take the time to focus and compose backlit photos looking into the sun? I suppose keeping the aperture smallish would reduce the risk greatly?

It's winter in Australia so the sun's not too strong at the moment, but it's been quite a sunny winter here in Melbourne.
 
Hi itf,

In over 15 years of Leica ownership I have never burned a curtain. Although I live in the UK I have travelled a lot in hotter climes and usually walk around while shooting with the lens cap off. I am aware of the risk, of course, and do take care not to be daft about it, but I suspect that in general it is not as great as you fear.

Regards,

Bill
 
Burning curtains?

I've never heard of this. I've had my M7 for a couple of months and never use a lens cap(though I keep the hood on at all times).

Can you repair burning curtains?

Does this only happen with Leica Ms?
 
Minor risk but do watch out

Minor risk but do watch out

I think the risk is very minimal.

However, you should not neglect it.
As long as you are just walking around or taking pictures, you should be fine.
But I left my weeks old MP on a table (under the guard of my gf) outside while I went to the toilet.
During those few minutes, the low evening sun appeared from behind a cloud and burned a big nice hole in my curtain (my aperture was fully open, coming from a dark room)
So direct sun for several minutes is dangerous. Taking pictures with the sun in the frame is not, because you never hold for more than 30 sec.
 
itf said:
Just how easy is it to burn holes in them? Can I walk around with the lens cap off provided the camera isn't pointed at the sun (but on a sling, so maybe some sky in view)? Can I take the time to focus and compose backlit photos looking into the sun? I suppose keeping the aperture smallish would reduce the risk greatly?
Click to expand...


how about you take off the lens, hold it under the sun and try to burn a piece of paper or an ant with it... then you'll know how easy or hard it is to do while randomly moving the camera with your hands in the sun's direction.
 
Didn't avotious pop his M6 on B and put some leaves betwixt lens and film plane and see how long it took to burn through them at various apertures. Can't find the thread now.
 
Actually, you might need to have to focus set at infinity along with widest aperture. It's a beautiful day today, I might try to use my Color Skopar or 50 f1.2 to burn some black cloth.
 
Given all the used Leicas out there with shutter holes, it can happen. A friend here burnt a hole in his M2 shutter. When it happens it is rather quick (some RFF FSU user did a related experiment once 🙂 ).

Avoid it by:

- not leaving your camera on a window sill, or outside on a table, in the sun without lenscap.
- when you shoot into the sun, be fast.
- use lens caps.

Since the shutter curtain is in front of the infinity focus plane, it is more likely to happen at closer focus, wide open.

Roland.
 
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From personal experience, it can happen very quickly, a matter of several seconds if the camera is stationary with a large aperture (f/2.8?)! I burned a hole testing for flare with an 8:00 AM sun a little outside the framelines around f/2.8. The camera stationary for < 30 sec. Don Goldberg commented he experimented with a Leica cloth shutter and was surprised at how quickly it happenred. Now I always use a cap even with a hood attached to avoid problems.
 
Back in the 60's, when my brother was a teenager, he decided to take some photos of an eclipse of the sun with my Dad's M3. He set it up on a tripod with a 280mm lens. Not only did he burn a crescent shaped hole in the shutter, there was also a hole in the film!
Needless to say, Dad was not happy!
That's an extreme case.
 
This is not a paranoia thing.

Obviously wide apertures are the most hazardous. Focus at shortest distance is more dangerous than infinity, curiously. This is because the shutter curtains are a few mm in front of the film plane.
I did the test years ago. Burning can occur instantly when aimed straight at the sun, with a really fast lens like the Canon 1,2 wide open. A f2 50mm still burns within a second.


It is this thread: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5909

Conclusion, lens caps. Stop down. Don't close focus. And don't point at the midday sun wide open. Or, be careful when stopped down.
 
Agreed. It happened to my M7 last year while talking to some photographers after shooting the Coney Island Mermaid Parade. Although I'm normally very diligent about protecting my Leicas against this very problem, I don't use lens/hood caps & was apparently distracted for a minute or 2 (probably answering questions about the M8), & that was enough for the late afternoon sun to burn some pinholes in the shutter (I probably had the aperture on the 35 'lux set to around f/2.8 or f/4).

awilder said:
From personal experience, it can happen very quickly, a matter of several seconds if the camera is stationary with a large aperture (f/2.8?)! I burned a hole testing for flare with an 8:00 AM sun a little outside the framelines around f/2.8. The camera stationary for < 30 sec. Don Goldberg commented he experimented with a Leica cloth shutter and was surprised at how quickly it happenred. Now I always use a cap even with a hood attached to avoid problems.
Click to expand...
 
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kully said:
Didn't avotious pop his M6 on B and put some leaves betwixt lens and film plane and see how long it took to burn through them at various apertures. Can't find the thread now.
Click to expand...


Why oh why did someone have to bring this up again, im so paranoid about this.

I did do that, I didnt post and significant findings but at big apertures it was a mater of seconds and it burned right through. I think it was f2 that took like 3-4 seconds to start the damage and at 2.8 took significantly longer then by 4 nothing was really happening but I always have my camera on 8 anyway when im outside.
 
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Happened to me as well with my M6, 28MM F1.9 on a bright sunny day without the lens cap last year. It was a matter of seconds. $260 repair for a few seconds of carelessness. :bang:
 
just so you're not soooo anxious about it being an "m" problem, metal curtains can warp and occasional melt (yes....i've done this before....junked the camera) and video cameras can have their chips destroyed, and i have seen a friends SLR's view screen melted when he left it on a table outside at a cafe. Pointing anything directly at the sun is a bad idea in general. However, while walking, it's pretty hard to keep things perfectly still and there is little chance of having this happen while cruising the streets, just don't leave it on your car seat pointing out the window.
 
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