Buyers paying Paypal fees?

[Simon Larbalestier]

99% of my print sales from my website are done through Paypal. My prints are in the UK, most of my buyers are in the USA. I swallow the 3% charged as i see it as part of the Paypal service to getting a quick sale. International Money Orders takes an age to worth through. I have noticed that some International Ebayers won't accept Paypal as a form of payment from International Bidders (only their own country) so i write them off my list of potential sellers. For me Paypal help bridge the international gap so it's worth the commission.
I've seen buyers on other forum sites want the 3% or 4% paid as an extra - whether i move forward on these sales depends on how badly i want the item.

RE shipping costs which is an additional factor built into mail order purchasing -I've bought a lot of camera equipment mail order/thru the net and never had anybody rip me off for the postage. Often its cheaper for someone to send me an item to the UK or even here in Bangkok than it is for me to ship an item out of the UK to somwhere like Australia or the USA.
To send a small item like a camera case vis EMS (insured mail) cost almost the equivalent of $30 USD from here in BKK. I got 2 lenses, filters and several hoods for the same amount :- $30 sent EMS from the USA to BKK! The UK is even more expensive to send something trackable and insured.
I'm always upfront about shipping costs and offer the buyer a choice of what is avalaible at the price charged by that particular courier service - i'd never add to this price.

Without Paypal i've never be able to sell my prints or be able to purchase more equipment internationally.

Simon

 

[dostacos]

Going along with other recent Ebay threads - I'm curious how buyers/sellers feel about Ebay auctions/ads requiring that the buyer pay extra for Paypal fees.

It seems odd to me, like a retail outlet tacking on 3.5% to cover their MasterCard overhead - would anyone willingly shop there again? When I see that (and I almost always use Paypal for online transactions - easy, fast and somewhat protected), I write the auction or sale off immediately.

I just bid 5% less than I would otherwise

 

[dcsang]

I always assume (ya.. I know.. "ass out of u and me") that I, as a buyer would pay those fees. Similar to Chris has stated.

I figure, it's part of the "cost" of doing business.

If the seller wanted a money order; hey, guess what, my bank charges for money orders, and seeing as how I know that postal money orders can be faked (having worked in a bank for 11 years) I prefer to send bank drafts/money orders. That cost is the cost to me the buyer.

The stamp I use to send the seller his funds is a cost to me the buyer.
The time it takes for me to go down to the post office or take time out of my work day to send that money order or draft to the seller is a cost to me, the buyer.

I can't expect the seller to absorb all the costs - time to wrap the item and pack it. Time to label the package; take it down to the post office etc. THe cost of any materials that may be involved (tape, peanuts, boxes etc.) - the seller has costs too that they have to absorb - the EvilBay fees for example. That alone should be one reason to sell here or at other sites and use Ebay as a "last resort" per se.

To me, that paypal fee is a small charge to cover for items upwards of $1,000 considering that the seller receives the funds instantly (into their PayPal account - 5 days to transfer to the bank account or such) and can basically ship out your item pronto.

I know that if I wanted to overnight a letter to just about anywhere outside of this country it's going to cost me about the same amount anyway (i.e. $30 USD on $1,000).

Cheers
Dave

 

[JohnR]

Hi, I think it would be worth examining the situation wrt international transactions a little more before people go shutting international buyers out. I have a Personal account, and Paypal do not charge me a fee when I receive money. I cannot, however, receive payment from a credit card, only from a Paypal balance or a bank account.

If I want to receive credit card payments, I have to upgrade to a Business account and Paypal will charge me 2.4% thereafter on ALL payments received. So my solution: keep my Personal account and ask people to use their bank account as the source of funds. I think this is safer anyway, as there is less chance of fraud etc. Whether this works on EBay I have yet to find out, but in a forum such as this it should be ok.

So I wonder whether one solution is to see about getting your account downgraded. Or close it and start another.

My understanding is that the buyer pays the 2.5% currency exchange fee. I will know soon for sure and will report back. For an international buyer this is acceptable and you just have to factor it in with the high post of postage etc.

For those who won't accept Paypal, I am able to get a Western Union money order at the post office. (I'm in Australia.) It costs me A$9 but for reasonable-sized transactions that's OK.

 

[peter_n]

Agree with Simon about the international convenience of PayPal. I bought a camera body from Australia last year and the bank wire transaction was extremely expensive and extremely slow. About 4 months later I bought a lens from Rob Spoon, an RFF member based in Holland and paid with PayPal. Rob was paid in minutes, the lens was on my doorstep a few days later. No comparison.

 

[x-ray]

It seems odd to me, like a retail outlet tacking on 3.5% to cover their MasterCard overhead - would anyone willingly shop there again?

Do you really think the retailer is eating the 3.5% fee? Think about it. Absolutely NO is the answer. The retail seller sets the price of goods or the manufacturer and the credit card fee is automatically added to EVERYONES purchase price whether you pay cash or by credit card. Don't fool yourself thinking a retailer is eating anything. It's the same as government health care. It's not free it's paid for by taxes, much higher taxes. Nothing is free, there's always a price whether on the surface or hidden in the cost..

In the case of evilbay the buyer sets the price of goods. Since the buyer sets the price do you really think its fair to shaft the seller for an additional fee on top of the very high fee evilbay charges to allow you to sell your item? Sorry but i don't think the seller should absorbe the fee.

Auction houses charge the seller and the buyer a fee when something is won in an auction. The auction house is bouble dipping and so is evilbay. Evilbay owns paypal so they are double dipping too.

The buyer has options that cost nothing so why not make us pay for the convienence rather than take more from the seller. I buy and sell on ebay and would not mind paying the fee as long as I can charge the fee when I sell.


http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...500&ppuser=2450

 

[dcsang]

<snip>It seems odd to me, like a retail outlet tacking on 3.5% to cover their MasterCard overhead - would anyone willingly shop there again?

Do you really think the retailer is eating the 3.5% fee? Think about it. Absolutely NO is the answer. The retail seller sets the price of goods or the manufacturer and the credit card fee is automatically added to EVERYONES purchase price whether you pay cash or by credit card. Don't fool yourself thinking a retailer is eating anything. It's the same as government health care. It's not free it's paid for by taxes, much higher taxes. Nothing is free, there's always a price whether on the surface or hidden in the cost..
</snip>

Don't know about down in the U.S. or other provinces but here in Ontario, just about every computer retailer (i.e. mom and pop shops) discount their prices the 3.5% if you pay by debit or cash.

Not that they haven't already jacked their previous prices but seeing as how that industries margins are so tight, I would doubt that they have a lot of wiggle room left over to play with.

Just my 2 Canuck Cents,
Dave

 

[paulh]

In my sale in RFF, I usually state I would appreciate 3% if paying by paypal. The reason for this is that the prices I sell here would be less than what I would ask for on an auction site. But I dont demand it. We are a community of users. Some buyers do add the 3%. Some go through the trouble of putting money into their account so that there are no fees. Some split the fees. Some buyers ask for waiver, I waive it. When I am a buyer on RFF, I find the same courtesy given to me and I am based in Singapore. This is a great place.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[x-ray]

A few years ago here in the US gas stations had a 3 cent higher price if you bought gas with a credit card. Now it's all one big price. Cash pais the fee too.


http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...500&ppuser=2450

 

[Rob Holland]

Years ago as part of our daily sales tally, we listed all credit card transactions by credit card company. At that time each card provider charged a different rate, so we listed them seperately and calculated the use as a percentage of overall sales. We averaged these costs quarterly and adjusted our prices to reflect our average costs. This was done BEFORE computers, so we did it all with a desk calculator.

Getting way off topic AND it shows how old I am!

Later,
Rob

 

[Nick R.]

It's against US ebay rules to charge extra for accepting paypal. It's part of the terms of service agreement. Sellers who violate this rule after agreeing to the terms of service are committing fraud.

Auctions that accept paypal always go for higher amounts than those that don't. It's bull that there's no benefit for the seller for accepting paypal.

 

[desmo]

Pay pal is too expensive. As a trader I'll use it but only if the buyer pays. Between Pay Pal and EBay, i 'lost' over 10% of the sale price on a recent kit sale.
Most folk can transfer funds through the banks, if they don't want to do that, fine, they can pay the highway robbery of Pay Pal.

Going along with other recent Ebay threads - I'm curious how buyers/sellers feel about Ebay auctions/ads requiring that the buyer pay extra for Paypal fees.

It seems odd to me, like a retail outlet tacking on 3.5% to cover their MasterCard overhead - would anyone willingly shop there again? When I see that (and I almost always use Paypal for online transactions - easy, fast and somewhat protected), I write the auction or sale off immediately.

 

[JoshRoot]

Between Pay Pal and EBay, i 'lost' over 10% of the sale price on a recent kit sale.

If you don't want to pay the fees, then don't use the service. Nobody is forcing you to sell on ebay.

 

[enochRoot]

who *wants* to pay the fees?! it's generally just something you put up with.

 

[JoshRoot]

who *wants* to pay the fees?!

Well that is true!

But seriously, ebay offers access to buyers that you CANNOT get anywhere else. There is no way that I would have gotten the same money for things that I have sold if ebay wasn't around. And I think most people here can say the same.

So I don't stress too much on the fees.

 

[back alley]

paypal fees are only for credit card purchases or for using a premium account.
i use basic paypal, no credit card and pay no fees.

 

[T_om]

It's against US ebay rules to charge extra for accepting paypal. It's part of the terms of service agreement. Sellers who violate this rule after agreeing to the terms of service are committing fraud.

Well, no. This is not 'fraud', a criminal offense. This is a violation of a user agreement (contract) and is covered under tort law.

Tom

 

[RJBender]

Making buyers pay palpay fees will get you warned then suspended from ebay/paypal if a buyer complains to them. And in a few states, it is actually against the law to charge more if payment is rendered via one method vs another.

Personally, I find it to be tacky and low class. Yes, paypal charges you a fee. But they are providing you a service. And for the service they provide (ability to accept credit cards), it is well priced. Even checked out what it costs to have a merchant account set up for a store or business? Paypal is a bargin.

Just suck up the 3% and deal with it. Or don't accept Paypal as a payment. But as someone who buys tons of stuff through ebay and web forums, I guarentee that I am far FAR less likely to buy something if the seller doesn't accept paypal. The way I see it, a seller ends up losing money because of fewer serious buyers and hence, lower bids, if they don't accept paypal.

Right, it's like asking the seller to pay mileage to the post office. Use a flat shipping price.

I think banks charge around 4%.

R.J.

 

[ChrisN]

It's against US ebay rules to charge extra for accepting paypal. It's part of the terms of service agreement. Sellers who violate this rule after agreeing to the terms of service are committing fraud.

Some time ago I put a listing on ebay, and stating that anyone who wanted to pay via paypal would have to add the 4% (I think) to cover the paypal fees.

Ebay emailed me to say that I wasn't allowed to do that, but said that I could charge a handling fee, and offer a discount for other-than-paypal payment!

There's always a loophole!

 

[phquest]

If you don't want to pay the fees, then don't use the service. Nobody is forcing you to sell on ebay.

I totally agree with this....and what really gets me is when the seller tacks on a ridiculous high shipping price on top of it.. Some people.