Buying a Kiev...

[Stephanie Brim]

My birthday is coming up, so I'm of course buying a new camera (in addition to a few baby things - onsies are so cute!) and thought about getting a Kiev. I've tried out the Leica side of things, and I'd like to try out the Contax side for a while.

What are the differences between the models of the Kiev 4 and which would be best for someone who has never touched a Contax-like rangefinder?

 

[Paul T.]

General consensus is that the early ones are better, although there's considerable sample variation. The 4a is the model without meter, and the earlier ones are recognisable via their all chrome self-timer (as opposed to one with the plastic insert), and the less plasticky leather cover. The ones with meter are fine, but bulkier- sometimes the meter actually works, and these cameras can be cheaper. I bought a 1970s one in Poland, with working shutter and meter for $25, altho I prefer my 1952 (cost $105) and 1960 (cost $15) models, they just feel less clunky. The later one takes just as good photos though, and the Jupiter 8M lens gives wonderful, slightly-vintage style photos. First two digits of the serial number signify the year it was produced. It won't cost any more to buy a pre-1960 model - after that point, production numbers went up, and quality went down somewaht.

There's a good feature on the Kiev here:

http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm

My Kiev II was bought from, I think, ruscamera, will check. They said it had been serviced, and it did seem to be the case. I have seen many reports recommending Alex-photo on the well-known auction site.

Good luck. My Kievs have taken some lovely photos of the nipper, altho you have to learn to rock backwards and forwards to track your subject, rather than refocusing. They are easy cameras to use, once you master the 'Contax grip' - which essentially means not putting your fingers in front of the rangefiner window.

 

[JonP]

I would have liked a II but couldn't afford the extra, so have a IIa and 4a (type I, before 1974), I also have metered ones, but the un-metered feel more balanced, both have been serviced and are wonderful. The IIa just feels a bit more "right"
Jon

 

[JonP]

Oh, happy birthday for soon!

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I think that, in my case, unmetered would be the way to go. I hardly ever use a meter anyway. I have one should I need it (I can always use my Nikon FE as a guide), but Sunny 16 does well enough for me outside and I tend to overcompensate inside, but things come out just fine.

 

[mike goldberg]

Hi Stephanie,
Suggest you send a PM to ruben. He's the local Kiev expert.
It took him 3 years to figure out how to get the winding...
film advance/shutter cocking to be soft & smooth. I have
a 1960 K4a from Fedka and it's quite good.

BTW: The J8m 53/2 [$19-] at Fedka is superb.
Good luck, mike

 

[40oz]

The Kiev 4 has a meter, the 4a has none. Other than that, they are identical. The meter has a linked GOST dial for setting the film speed for the meter. The "-a" versions have a bigger rewind knob and films speed reminder in place of the linked dial and small rewind knob. The 4m and 4am models ar the same as the 4 and 4a, but the shutter and rewind knobs are black for "a more modern look" 🙂 The camera hasn't changed much since the Kiev 2/2a.

I have both a 4 and 4a. The meter works on my 4, which is handy, but the 4a is a more compact package, which is also handy. Buying a model with no meter might be a good idea if you don't need it, as the sensor apparently doesn't last forever. However, there are plenty for sale with working meters, so it's not that big a deal.

As far as "early ones are better," I think it is merely a comment on finish, as both my late 70's Kiev's are rock solid gems, smooth winding and reliable. Apparently the shutter and rangefinder mechanisms are pretty robust - you don't see threads about re-aligning a Kiev rangefinder or fixing shutter speeds very often. I don't think you can go wrong as long as you buy a working model. The lenses are great, whether the Jupiter-3 or -8 or the Helios-103.

As far as usage, just set shutter speed after winding to avoid confusion (the shutter speed and winding knob are the same), and you're set. The rewind release is on the the bottom, and has to be held in while rewinding. The entire back comes off for changing film, and can be tricky if the film spools aren't seated on their respective spindles. The winding spool can be tricky depending on what comes with your camera. Mine required trimming the leaders to a point and inserting that into a spring clip that released on rewinding. I later obtained a spool that had two slots for holding a standard leader.

 

[Duncan Ross]

I'd actually try the late model 4M Kiev, it is possibly the easiest of all to use. The take-on spool won't go missing, you don't have to hold anything in to rewind it, they have a normal hotshoe and they are so cheap that you won't be taking a great financial risk. They also aren't fifty years old and unreliability can be overstated at times, if it doesn't work send it back for a replacement.

To be truthful the choice of specific Kiev model can be made to seem over-important; they are all virtually identical to use and all produce superb results!

 

[kmack]

The real reason to shoot with a Kiev is for the pure fun of using a quirky copy of a quirky system.

My personal favorite is the Kiev IIIa. The IIIa is one of the first models to get a flash sync. It is as well made as any of the older Kiev models but there is something special about the way the film rewind knob is stacked onto the meter controls. Looking at a Kiev III from the front I am always reminded of the corner towers of the Kremlin. 🙂

It's bulky, quiet, finicky, frustrating and fun.

 

[brachal]

You probably want a 4a or 4am if you're on a budget. I'd advise buying from fedka.com; Yuri will make it right for you if it isn't initially. I like the system a lot, but my experiences have been mixed ...

1980's 4am -- shutter ribbons broke the first day I had it.
1970's 4a -- light leaks, light leaks, and still more light leaks. 2 CLA's and still light leaks.
1955 2a -- absolute perfection. One of my favorite cameras.

 

[ruben]

Hi Stephanie,
I told you what you need is a new camera ! (ok, I proposed a TLR, but if not, a Kiev will give you a lot of fun.)

Since you are versatile in doing without meters, you are likely to squeez the most from a kiev, whose main drawback is precisely the lack of a coupled meter.

The best Kiev camera is the one which will give you the less trouble. Upon reading Paul T post, other posters here, Keith Berry page, and taking into account my own experience, I find all very contradictory experiences. My explanation for this is the different locations on the globe we live in.

I would follow Paul had I be living in East Europe, Keith Berry had I be living in the UK, and myself in case of having to deal with eBay. Different locations bring different experiences.

But you happen to live in the same country as the most reputable seller worldwide, Yuri Bugoslavski (www.fedka.com), and it will be a bit anachronistic if you miss at least having a chat with him. Upon my exchanges with him, I am sure you can ask what Kiev, among those he has now for sale, will make the best compromise between camera condition and your budget. Yuri is also a most refined manners person, an amicable fellow bringing pleasure to talk with.

My second rated venue is to look at FSU sellers, only for a MINT or LIKE NEW kiev 4am, (no meter), from year 84 and onwards. Meaning a camera that has not been used or almost not used at all. These models have a relatively ugly look outside, compared to the earlier ones, but preserve an unmessed mechanism inside. And are the cheapest too !

Unfortunately my latests reviews of Kiev cameras at eBay and other FSU sellers confirm time and again that a deep process of Kiev cannibalization is taking place at the FSU(*). What we once thought to be "transitional models" are turning to be a mixture of whatever parts available to put a Kiev for sale. Times when we could buy an old kiev that remained in a Russian closet for decades are gone. This is why Keith Berry advise about FSU sellers, as well as anyone who bought his kiev from 4~5 years and backwards, is quite overdated. Ce fini

This is not to say that you cannot be lucky at eBay. But there is a difference between being lucky and going foolproof.

Cheers,
Ruben

(*) Once upon a time, till today, Contax buyers were worried about Contax cannibalization with Kiev parts ! Now Kiev models are vyctims themselves...

 

[darkkavenger]

My 1956 Kiev-2A was --and still is-- my favorite camera. I offered it to a friend as a token of friendship, because that person is more precious to me than was the camera itself (which means a loooooooooot). She now takes very nice photos with it. I've also had several others, including 4, 4A and II, and all of those were lucky cameras. 🙂

I would tend to recommend an older one, because of the better finish & quality.

 

[dee]

i started with a Kiev 4 and 4m from Oleg [ OKvintagecamera as highly recommended as fedka for those of us outside USA . ] Both serviced and working sweetly - I like the 4m 'cos it's easier to use - and has a new meter cell !

But I just received a Kiev 2 and 3 - total indulgence from an e-bay seller and am blown away - the finish or something about them, is superlative - even the cases are lovely ... the original boxes just a treat !

... but how that translates into taking photos rather than an object of dee-sire , I have yet to ascertain ...

For use , i am much less woried about marking / breaking / losing my 1983 Kiev 4m , than I would my 1954 Kiev 2 ...

but then I am officially krazeee

Have fun with it - whichever you buy .

dee

 

[f8&go]

Stephanie,

FYI:

I've got a lovely 4AM with a Jupiter 12(35mm) that I purchased here
(from Solinar IIRC.) It is in beautiful cosmetic condition and I was told
that Oleg worked it over, which I believe 'cause its a smooth winder.
I'm keeping the Aux. finder and the self time is 'kaput' but it comes with
its 'neverready' case and the bakelight lensebox. I took a test roll of slides
(which I'd be happy to include.) Lens seems excellent too.

Point is, if you'd like this camera I'd be happy to send it along to you,
someone on a budget who'll appreciate it, for a very modest fee.
PM me if you wish.

Best wishes,

f8&go

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Yeah, I think I'll go through Fedka. Thanks guys. 🙂

 

[Keith]

Yeah, I think I'll go through Fedka. Thanks guys. 🙂

Wise descision ... I bought a Kneb II from him six months ago and though it was a little dearer, the camera has been faultless and it now takes precedence over my Contax IIa as a shooter. Aside from being my fav FSU, it is fast becoming one of my favourite cameras ... period. 🙂

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Well, he also has a relatively cheap Contax III...and it looks surprisingly right up my alley...

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Hah, never mind. An Apugger pulled through for me. I'll have a Kiev with 2 lenses by next week, almost 2 weeks before my birthday! I'm so happy! Thanks for helping me make the decision.