rl1856
Member
Hello,
I am new to the forum and this is my first post.
I am intrigued by FSU rangefinder cameras and would like to purchase one.
Looking at Ebay and the various information sites, there seems to be an almost overwhelming selection of cameras, all with varying features and levels of quality.
May I have some advise as to what would be a good choice ?
I have set the following criteria:
Bright rangefinder window with lots of contrast.
"Classic" rangefinder look (some of the later RF cameras I have looked at resemble a Kodak or other cheap camera).
Standard screw mount lens.
Good optics- Which series has the best lens- I have seen references to Jupitor 8 and a ID lens for example. Apeature speed better than F-3.
Min of 1/500 as fastest shutter speed, 1/1000 would be nice.
I do not need a built in light meter as I have now problem using a hand held unit.
Am I better off going with a Leica or Contax type of camera ? As far as FSU cameras go, what are the benefits of each ?
Is there a list of known reputable Ebay sellers ?
Thanks in Advance !
Ross
I am new to the forum and this is my first post.
I am intrigued by FSU rangefinder cameras and would like to purchase one.
Looking at Ebay and the various information sites, there seems to be an almost overwhelming selection of cameras, all with varying features and levels of quality.
May I have some advise as to what would be a good choice ?
I have set the following criteria:
Bright rangefinder window with lots of contrast.
"Classic" rangefinder look (some of the later RF cameras I have looked at resemble a Kodak or other cheap camera).
Standard screw mount lens.
Good optics- Which series has the best lens- I have seen references to Jupitor 8 and a ID lens for example. Apeature speed better than F-3.
Min of 1/500 as fastest shutter speed, 1/1000 would be nice.
I do not need a built in light meter as I have now problem using a hand held unit.
Am I better off going with a Leica or Contax type of camera ? As far as FSU cameras go, what are the benefits of each ?
Is there a list of known reputable Ebay sellers ?
Thanks in Advance !
Ross
back alley
IMAGES
welcome ross!
i no expert in fsu cameras so i'll just wait for the gurus to answer your questions.
i will say this however, i had a non working fed 2 and loved the feel of it.
i had a zorki 4k and it was very nice. it even had a built in diopter amking focussing without my glasses much easier.
and i had a kiev 4 am. it's very different from the ltm cameras as it's based on the contax.
it was my favourite.
joe
i no expert in fsu cameras so i'll just wait for the gurus to answer your questions.
i will say this however, i had a non working fed 2 and loved the feel of it.
i had a zorki 4k and it was very nice. it even had a built in diopter amking focussing without my glasses much easier.
and i had a kiev 4 am. it's very different from the ltm cameras as it's based on the contax.
it was my favourite.
joe
R
Roman
Guest
Some recommendations:
Zorki 6, 3M, 4 and 4K have the brightest finders; FEDs have dimmer, smaller finders, but with very contrasty RF spots; Kievs also have dim, small finders with contrasty rangefinder spots, and they have the longest (= most accurate) rangefinder baselengths. Of the LTM cameras, the Zorki 6 and FED 2 are the ones with longest RF baselengths.
I guess what you call the 'classic rangefinder look' is applicable for all the Kievs and Zorkis, and for the FED 1 and 2; the 3 already started the change towards what you called the cheaper look, which was in full effect with the FED 4 and 5.
The Kievs don't use screw-mount lenses, all FEDs and Zorkis do, as do the Leningrad and the Druug (two rather rare models).
Best lenses are the Jupiter-8 (VERY nice, smooth bokeh, sharp if stopped down slightly, low contrast - an ideal portrait & low-light lens) and the Industar-61LD (very contrasty and sharp, an ideal general purpose lens; the only Russian LTM lens with click stops for the aperture); the Jupiter-3 is supposed to be good if found in working condition (but most seem to suffer from scratches on the front element); zhe I-26m is so-so/acceptable - get on of the other normal focal lengths; I-50 and I-22 are slower than you said you wanted.
The 35mm J-12 is another great lens, as would be the 85mm J-9, though it is hard to find in good condition, and hard to use due to the lack of parallax-corrected framelines on the Russian RFs.
BTW, you can mix-and-match the lenses, no need to choose your body based on the lens.
All of the Russian RFs have 1/500, the Z-4, 4K and 3M also have 1/1000; the FED 2 and Z6 lack the slower speed below 1/30 (which are rarely needed for traditional RF-style shooting, anyway).
Some additional info: the Z-6 is the only Russian RF with hinged back-door, fixed film take-up spool and advance-lever instead of knob; the Z4K also has an advance -lever, but a bakc that comes off completely.
The Z3M does not have flash synch (though you can find modified ones).
I personally find the Z4 models somewhat unergonomical, the Z6 and FED 2 have the best feeling/ergonomics for me.
As for Kiev vs. LTM-types: the Kievs are very well made, precise & complex (meaning, harder to repair if something breaks), and require some adjustment with holding (the 'Contax-grip'); the are slightly heavier. Their rangefinders are very precise, but also very dark and squinty.
The LTM-types are much simpler (easier to repair) types, the newer models have brighter, larger finders than the other Russian RFs. The lenses (esp. the J-9) are more trouble-prone than their Kiev counterparts, but lens-choice is much wider.
I personally would recommend the Zorki 6 or 3M as the best shooters, with the FED 2 a close third (due to the darker finder), followed by the Kievs and the Zorki 4/4Ks.
Reliable dealers: alex-photo on Eby, http://www.okvintagecamera.com, http://www.fedka.com/Frames/Main_Frame.htm
Very useful sites:
http://www.commiecameras.com/
http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/index.htm
http://www.geocities.com/fzorkis/
Roman
Zorki 6, 3M, 4 and 4K have the brightest finders; FEDs have dimmer, smaller finders, but with very contrasty RF spots; Kievs also have dim, small finders with contrasty rangefinder spots, and they have the longest (= most accurate) rangefinder baselengths. Of the LTM cameras, the Zorki 6 and FED 2 are the ones with longest RF baselengths.
I guess what you call the 'classic rangefinder look' is applicable for all the Kievs and Zorkis, and for the FED 1 and 2; the 3 already started the change towards what you called the cheaper look, which was in full effect with the FED 4 and 5.
The Kievs don't use screw-mount lenses, all FEDs and Zorkis do, as do the Leningrad and the Druug (two rather rare models).
Best lenses are the Jupiter-8 (VERY nice, smooth bokeh, sharp if stopped down slightly, low contrast - an ideal portrait & low-light lens) and the Industar-61LD (very contrasty and sharp, an ideal general purpose lens; the only Russian LTM lens with click stops for the aperture); the Jupiter-3 is supposed to be good if found in working condition (but most seem to suffer from scratches on the front element); zhe I-26m is so-so/acceptable - get on of the other normal focal lengths; I-50 and I-22 are slower than you said you wanted.
The 35mm J-12 is another great lens, as would be the 85mm J-9, though it is hard to find in good condition, and hard to use due to the lack of parallax-corrected framelines on the Russian RFs.
BTW, you can mix-and-match the lenses, no need to choose your body based on the lens.
All of the Russian RFs have 1/500, the Z-4, 4K and 3M also have 1/1000; the FED 2 and Z6 lack the slower speed below 1/30 (which are rarely needed for traditional RF-style shooting, anyway).
Some additional info: the Z-6 is the only Russian RF with hinged back-door, fixed film take-up spool and advance-lever instead of knob; the Z4K also has an advance -lever, but a bakc that comes off completely.
The Z3M does not have flash synch (though you can find modified ones).
I personally find the Z4 models somewhat unergonomical, the Z6 and FED 2 have the best feeling/ergonomics for me.
As for Kiev vs. LTM-types: the Kievs are very well made, precise & complex (meaning, harder to repair if something breaks), and require some adjustment with holding (the 'Contax-grip'); the are slightly heavier. Their rangefinders are very precise, but also very dark and squinty.
The LTM-types are much simpler (easier to repair) types, the newer models have brighter, larger finders than the other Russian RFs. The lenses (esp. the J-9) are more trouble-prone than their Kiev counterparts, but lens-choice is much wider.
I personally would recommend the Zorki 6 or 3M as the best shooters, with the FED 2 a close third (due to the darker finder), followed by the Kievs and the Zorki 4/4Ks.
Reliable dealers: alex-photo on Eby, http://www.okvintagecamera.com, http://www.fedka.com/Frames/Main_Frame.htm
Very useful sites:
http://www.commiecameras.com/
http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/index.htm
http://www.geocities.com/fzorkis/
Roman
jon_flanders
Well-known
Viewfinders.....My Zorki 4's finder is very large and bright, so large that I have trouble figuring out the composition.
The Fed 2's finder is smaller, greenish and dimmer. But I can see the composition. Both cameras have diopters. Sometimes I forget to focus the diopter, and have more trouble focusing the camera than I should. The metal knurled ring around the finder scratched my new glasses. I fixed that by gluing an o-ring around the metal ring.
Aesthetically, the Fed 2 is hard to beat. It would be my first choice.
Ebay sellers.....remember the two camera rule. It takes two buys to get one good one.
The Fed 2's finder is smaller, greenish and dimmer. But I can see the composition. Both cameras have diopters. Sometimes I forget to focus the diopter, and have more trouble focusing the camera than I should. The metal knurled ring around the finder scratched my new glasses. I fixed that by gluing an o-ring around the metal ring.
Aesthetically, the Fed 2 is hard to beat. It would be my first choice.
Ebay sellers.....remember the two camera rule. It takes two buys to get one good one.
peter_n
Veteran
Welcome Ross! 
I'm not an FSU expert but have bought a couple of lenses recently. As has already been stated above, the Jupiter-8 is an outstanding standard lens. Its a direct copy of a Carl Zeiss Sonnar - some of the earlier ones are even built with the original Zeiss machinery! If you do a search here on Jupiter-8 you will find a wealth of information. I bought my lenses from eBay dealer ruscamera and would recommend him.
The Zorki 3M does seem to be a frequently mentioned body on this forum, I am half-tempted to buy one myself but I am steadfastly not going to divert the funds from something else...
Below is a link from the Russian camera forum Beststuff on camera dealers:
FSU camera sellers
I'm not an FSU expert but have bought a couple of lenses recently. As has already been stated above, the Jupiter-8 is an outstanding standard lens. Its a direct copy of a Carl Zeiss Sonnar - some of the earlier ones are even built with the original Zeiss machinery! If you do a search here on Jupiter-8 you will find a wealth of information. I bought my lenses from eBay dealer ruscamera and would recommend him.The Zorki 3M does seem to be a frequently mentioned body on this forum, I am half-tempted to buy one myself but I am steadfastly not going to divert the funds from something else...
Below is a link from the Russian camera forum Beststuff on camera dealers:
FSU camera sellers
rbiemer
Unabashed Amateur
Welcome aboard, Ross!
There are a ton of choices out there for both cameras and sellers so here's my 2 cents worth:
I have dealt with and been happy with these folks:
http://rafcamera.com/ this guy specializes in movie cameras but there is a small amount of RF cameras and he will search out specific items for you.
http://okvintagecamera.com/ Oleg is one of my favorites. Very knowledgeable and he does repairs as well. I trust his descriptions and staements about condition completly.
Andhttp://www.rus-camera.com/index.php Vladis does sell the gear he's got on the site but you need to email and ask about what you want. One caveat about him: While I like him quite abit, his written english is some what akward. He hsa answered all my questions well and honestly but some times the phrasing makes me read the sentence twice. Absolutley NOT a deal breaker.
About cameras--I don't feel comfortable telling you which to buy but I will briefly--yeah, right-- tell you what I use and why.
I own Kiev cameras and LTM cameras and lately have been using my Zorki 3m the most. I like it because I wear glasses and the viewfinder is bigger/brighter than either my Kiev 4a or my FED2 cameras. It also has shutter speeds from 1/1000 down to B which I appreciate. There is a diopter adjustment for the viewfinder that stays put better than the diopter adjustment on my FED2. It has strap lugs and not all the FSU cameras have them. Plus, I like the looks of this camera the best of all of the FSU cameras.
My Kiev 4a camera was the first camera I bought from the Ukraine and I like it but don't use it as much since I got the Z3m. I enjoy the build quality of this camera it feels better built than the other RF cameras I own. It will focus more accurately due to the longer rangefinder base. The Jupiter 8 lens that it wears is probably the best of the 50mm lenses I own(I'm still searching for a LTM J8 that is as good) Once again it has a broad range of shutter speeds and strap lugs.
The FED2 that I own is in the best condition--it looks unused but it has just been taken very good care of[thanks GeneW!]. I like its size and the way it fits my hands. I don't use it as much as I should. I have been trying to change my thinking so that I wont miss the slow speeds. The viewfinder on this camera is smaller than the Zorki and about the same as the Kiev.
There are no reasons any of these cameras in good working order can't take outstanding pictures and many here have different cameras than the ones I own and use them very well!
I started down this road because I wanted the best Bang for my limited buck and I have mostly been well served by my choices.
In general these cameras are slower to use but that has made my photography better.
Most of them use a 3/8" tripod socket so you'll need an adaptor or a tripod head in that size.
The filter sizes for the lenses are just abit out of the range you typically find in camera stores, not impossible to find but you may be better served by the web than your local shop.
OK, that was 4 cents not two. Sorry.
Search around this forum and you will be able to find answers to most of you questions!
Best, Rob
There are a ton of choices out there for both cameras and sellers so here's my 2 cents worth:
I have dealt with and been happy with these folks:
http://rafcamera.com/ this guy specializes in movie cameras but there is a small amount of RF cameras and he will search out specific items for you.
http://okvintagecamera.com/ Oleg is one of my favorites. Very knowledgeable and he does repairs as well. I trust his descriptions and staements about condition completly.
Andhttp://www.rus-camera.com/index.php Vladis does sell the gear he's got on the site but you need to email and ask about what you want. One caveat about him: While I like him quite abit, his written english is some what akward. He hsa answered all my questions well and honestly but some times the phrasing makes me read the sentence twice. Absolutley NOT a deal breaker.
About cameras--I don't feel comfortable telling you which to buy but I will briefly--yeah, right-- tell you what I use and why.
I own Kiev cameras and LTM cameras and lately have been using my Zorki 3m the most. I like it because I wear glasses and the viewfinder is bigger/brighter than either my Kiev 4a or my FED2 cameras. It also has shutter speeds from 1/1000 down to B which I appreciate. There is a diopter adjustment for the viewfinder that stays put better than the diopter adjustment on my FED2. It has strap lugs and not all the FSU cameras have them. Plus, I like the looks of this camera the best of all of the FSU cameras.
My Kiev 4a camera was the first camera I bought from the Ukraine and I like it but don't use it as much since I got the Z3m. I enjoy the build quality of this camera it feels better built than the other RF cameras I own. It will focus more accurately due to the longer rangefinder base. The Jupiter 8 lens that it wears is probably the best of the 50mm lenses I own(I'm still searching for a LTM J8 that is as good) Once again it has a broad range of shutter speeds and strap lugs.
The FED2 that I own is in the best condition--it looks unused but it has just been taken very good care of[thanks GeneW!]. I like its size and the way it fits my hands. I don't use it as much as I should. I have been trying to change my thinking so that I wont miss the slow speeds. The viewfinder on this camera is smaller than the Zorki and about the same as the Kiev.
There are no reasons any of these cameras in good working order can't take outstanding pictures and many here have different cameras than the ones I own and use them very well!
I started down this road because I wanted the best Bang for my limited buck and I have mostly been well served by my choices.
In general these cameras are slower to use but that has made my photography better.
Most of them use a 3/8" tripod socket so you'll need an adaptor or a tripod head in that size.
The filter sizes for the lenses are just abit out of the range you typically find in camera stores, not impossible to find but you may be better served by the web than your local shop.
OK, that was 4 cents not two. Sorry.
Search around this forum and you will be able to find answers to most of you questions!
Best, Rob
lushd
Donald
Hi
You've had some great advice so my contribution is about feel - the joy of these objects is that they are quite cheap. Try a few!! My personal favourites are the Zorki 1, Zorki 4K and Fed 2. All of them will set you back small money and are reasonably saleable if you don't want them anymore. The Z1 is great because it looks and handles like a Leica (although it is much coarser). I love it because of the small size and the relatively quiet shutter make for great street photography. The Z4k is a great camera - lovely viewfinder, speeds from 1 to 1000th, opening back for loading. A little clunky perhaps? The FED 2 is my favourite user. Mine is a really quiet and smooth example that has a good viewfinder and again the easy loading. A lot of this is down to what you will use the camera for - I like full frame, no fancy filters, handheld and being able to see the shot I'm taking when the shutter goes off. All of these cameras will do this for you.
Some of my Zorki 1 stuff is on my website:
www.blackrockgallery.com
In the 1968 chapter the first 10 b+w images are from the Zorki 1 and nearly all the rest on the site is from a Voigtlander Bessa R. Emotionally I prefer the Zorki!
Have fun
Donald
You've had some great advice so my contribution is about feel - the joy of these objects is that they are quite cheap. Try a few!! My personal favourites are the Zorki 1, Zorki 4K and Fed 2. All of them will set you back small money and are reasonably saleable if you don't want them anymore. The Z1 is great because it looks and handles like a Leica (although it is much coarser). I love it because of the small size and the relatively quiet shutter make for great street photography. The Z4k is a great camera - lovely viewfinder, speeds from 1 to 1000th, opening back for loading. A little clunky perhaps? The FED 2 is my favourite user. Mine is a really quiet and smooth example that has a good viewfinder and again the easy loading. A lot of this is down to what you will use the camera for - I like full frame, no fancy filters, handheld and being able to see the shot I'm taking when the shutter goes off. All of these cameras will do this for you.
Some of my Zorki 1 stuff is on my website:
www.blackrockgallery.com
In the 1968 chapter the first 10 b+w images are from the Zorki 1 and nearly all the rest on the site is from a Voigtlander Bessa R. Emotionally I prefer the Zorki!
Have fun
Donald
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rl1856
Member
Thank You !
Thank You !
I have decided to purchase a Fed-2(late series) and a Zorki 3m.
From the advice posted on this thread, contained in the archives and from other sights, these 2 cameras seem to be what I am looking for.
Thank you to all that took the time to reply.
Best,
Ross
Thank You !
I have decided to purchase a Fed-2(late series) and a Zorki 3m.
From the advice posted on this thread, contained in the archives and from other sights, these 2 cameras seem to be what I am looking for.
Thank you to all that took the time to reply.
Best,
Ross
T
tedwhite
Guest
Perhaps someone can help me figure out which FED-2 I just bought. Ebay auction number is 7503858880.
Is it a FED-2 (e) Type 1 Version 9 (low cold shoe)? Or some other model?
Ted
Is it a FED-2 (e) Type 1 Version 9 (low cold shoe)? Or some other model?
Ted
kiev4a
Well-known
Your camera is one of the later FED2s (it has the mushroom film advance knob). I'm not sure which specific model. If it comes from Alex you can rest assured it is in good shape.
P
pshinkaw
Guest
It looks like either A Fed-2D or Fed-2E. The D has the self-timer lever pointed down when untensioned, while the E has it pointing up. However, the D is supposed to have the older style shutter speed progression (1/25) while the E is supposed to have the new speed progression (1/30). I can't tell if it has the step under the accessory shoe or not.
Take a look at this website and see if you agree.
http://www.geocities.com/fzorkis/
There were probably in-between models as the factory transitioned from one model to another.
-Paul
Take a look at this website and see if you agree.
http://www.geocities.com/fzorkis/
There were probably in-between models as the factory transitioned from one model to another.
-Paul
T
tedwhite
Guest
Thanks Paul and Wayne. I can't tell, either. However, I did contact Alex and for $8.00 more I switched out the Industar 26M (2.8/52mm) for one of those collapsible Elmar clones. Gives the camera a real early Leica-look. I've got a Jupiter 8, so if I need a faster lens I've got one. (hope I didn't do something stupid here with the lens switch).
Another advantage of the collapsible lens is the pocketability factor. If anyone has one, I'd appeciate your comments.
Alex has been quite a good seller to deal with so far. He has been agreeable and cooperative and answers my queries promptly.
Ted
Another advantage of the collapsible lens is the pocketability factor. If anyone has one, I'd appeciate your comments.
Alex has been quite a good seller to deal with so far. He has been agreeable and cooperative and answers my queries promptly.
Ted
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tedwhite
Guest
Probably an "e" as it has the linear progression of shutter speeds: B-30-60-125-250-500.
Printed it out and then got the magnifying glass. Could see it clearly.
Ted
Printed it out and then got the magnifying glass. Could see it clearly.
Ted
P
pshinkaw
Guest
Some of the Fed-2's have a rangefinder cam that was mounted a few millimeters lower than others. Seems to be a manufacturing variation. On those cameras, the locking lugs on collapsible lenses will bump the cam shaft as the lens is collapsed or extended. If the camera has that problem you can live with it by remembering which rotation alignment to hold the lens at while it is collapsed and extended. Sometimes all it takes is a little wiggle while you push the lens in. I have even seen the problem with Fed bodies and Fed lenses which were ostensibly made to work with each other.
Otherwise the Fed-2 and a collapsible lens should be a perfectly fine combination.
-Paul
Otherwise the Fed-2 and a collapsible lens should be a perfectly fine combination.
-Paul
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tedwhite
Guest
pAUL:
Thanks for the heads up. Never would have known that small bit of critical intelligence. I'll see if I can figure it out. No doubt when the camera arrives I'll have a question or two regarding film loading.
The Jupiter-8 hasn't arrived yet. As it's not collapsible it should mate with the FED -2's rangefinder? Also, will the J8 work OK on my Bessa R?.
Ted
Thanks for the heads up. Never would have known that small bit of critical intelligence. I'll see if I can figure it out. No doubt when the camera arrives I'll have a question or two regarding film loading.
The Jupiter-8 hasn't arrived yet. As it's not collapsible it should mate with the FED -2's rangefinder? Also, will the J8 work OK on my Bessa R?.
Ted
P
pshinkaw
Guest
The Jupiter-8 should work fine with Fed, barring any problems with the flange-film distance (which is quite common). In any event it's all easily correctable.
I think I may be one of only a handful on this forum who does NOT own a Bessa. I'll defer that to someone more knowledgeable.
-Paul
I think I may be one of only a handful on this forum who does NOT own a Bessa. I'll defer that to someone more knowledgeable.
-Paul
R
Roman
Guest
Ted, the J8 wil work reasonably well with the R, except when used wide open at close distances - focus will be off a few inches, unless that lens has beend specifically calibrated to LTM standards (reason: the Russians used the optical components from the Contax based Sonnar, without changing them for LTM lenses, and those two systems have different standard focal lengths).
Roman
Roman
L
Laika
Guest
tedwhite said:
Here is a group of images I took showing how to load a FED2 or 3
1. Showing a fixed spool as found on a FED3 or later camera (often fitted to FED2's by users)
2. Normal FED2 removable spool
3. Bottom of the spool in body and the removable back locking lug
4. Spool removed from the body, note the spool assembly is on a spring and its ok to bend the spool bottom outward enough to clear the lug in image 3.
5. Load the spool as shown with your film
6. Re-insert the spool and film canister, take up the slack with the rewind knob and then start to wind on to make sure the gears are lined up right with the film sprocket holes. Put the camera back on and fire off a frame or two... done
Nice FED2 btw, its the same model as my first one by the look of it.
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chenick
Nick's my name!
lushd said:
Nice pics from Dublin there Donald!
-Nick
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tedwhite
Guest
Laika:
Thank you. I printed it all out.
Ted
Thank you. I printed it all out.
Ted