Buying second hand

[EXksporry]

Guys,
I am planning to buy my first Leica, a used M8/8.2. What should I look out for? I have a lens for my r-d1 so I could test it. Any tips?
I know NRA of frames is always useful to look at but how do I do that on the Leica, and can it be reset by a previous owner or shop?

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks!

 

[jordan.dickinson]

Best thing I can suggest for an M8 is shoot a photo or two with the body cap or lens cap on with a bit of a long exposure. The problem with some M8's is the "banding" issue, which many have complained about, and many have experienced. The result is basically a continuous vertical line across your image, and has nothing to do with the actual subject you are trying to shoot. However, if you shoot some test shots with the body/lens of normal subjects at the shop, you might not notice the issue under normal conditions. It's only with pure black environments (cap on), that you will quickly see this potential "banding," if at all. If you don't find it, I'd say go ahead and buy the camera, but if there's a banding issue or dead pixels, it will be obvious, and I'd steer clear. Other than that, dings/dents might be a factor, and be sure to check the rf patch alignment for vertical/horizontal alignment. Shutter actuations are a good thing to check too, but to me, it's a minor issue unless someone has shot 10's of thousands of shots on a body. The shutters are meant to last into the 100k mark, so if it's in the 10-20,000 mark or less, I wouldn't stress it.

Hope this helps, and best of luck with your new cam!

 

[Lflex]

Get a reasonable return priviledge.

 

[Jim-st]

I got my M8 from the ebay store of Leica dealer in Holland. It was advertised as ex-demo, which seems to be Leica-talk for refurbished, and was priced at the high end of the range for used M8's at the time. However, as a refurb it came with 2 years warranty, which I did have cause to invoke.

The M8 is a truly excellent camera, but as you'll have seen if you've read around here and the L-camera forums, it's not been without issues. So I'd suggest it's worth looking round for one with a Leica warranty - maybe just one that's just come back from Leica for a CLA or a repair, and has a current manufacturer's warranty.

Good hunting!

 

[dude163]

I concur with what Jim said, I bought mine from a dealer with a 1 year warranty from Leica also and the piece of mind was worth it.

funny thing is, I had never even seen or handled a M8 , actually any M camera now that I think about it until one showed up at my house 🙂 love at first grope !

 

[Shade]

I would preferably buy it from a reputable dealer that can offer responsible service and coverage claims should the camera fails withon a few days of purchase. Then you would have to test the picture being taken, sensor function on low and high level iso, and viewfinder aligment as well..

 

[EXksporry]

Thanks for the advice. I'm currently based in shanghai, which means stores are not that reputable. Unless like you guys say, it still has a Leica warranty (how do I check this by the way?), warranty can be expected to extend no further than the doorway... So any checks I'd have to do in the store. Ofcourse if someone has a link to where Leica sells refurbs,nthat would be a great possibility as it would be tested thoroughly, plus it would come with a warranty. Ofcourse the source should be able to send it insured (after all, this is still china...)
By the way, how do I check the number of shutter cycles performed?

 

[jaapv]

There are no M8 cameras or variants with factory guaranty around, unless they have been repaired or upgraded recently. The seller will be able to produce factory correspondence to that effect in that case.
You can find the total image count ( hexadecimal) in EXIF under " unique Image Number ".
Not that that is very relevant. There are no reports of cameras breaking down through wear.
Any failures have been unrelated to the number af actuations. The highest number of shots without any problems reported is 300.000.
Sometimes authorized Leica dealers do sell refurbs. They are advertized as "factory demo".

 

[Jubb Jubb]

There is a used M8 for sale on BHphoto website. They are very trustworthy and I have never had a problem buying in their used department.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800824624-USE/Leica_10701_M8_Rangefinder_Digital_Camera.html

 

[LCT]

...I know NRA of frames is always useful to look at but how do I do that on the Leica...

Just take a pic and drag & drop the original DNG or JPG file onto the M8Info icon: http://www.soens.de/swpage/swpage.html
Aside from replacing important guts of the cam, the seller or the shop cannot do anything to reset the actuation counter as far as i know.

 

[jaapv]

Even if the motherboard is replaced the number will remain unchanged. It would take a reset of the internal memory to change the number. I guess three months without battery might do the trick, through draining the internal battery.

 

[Ben Z]

I've had many great experiences buying from KEH.com. They have a 14-day no-questions-asked return period, 6 month warranty, and according to their website they offer optional 1-3 year warranty extensions on many of their used items. AFAIK they ship internationally, but I'm not certain if they accept all international credit cards. They usually have an assortment of M8's. KEH isn't cheap, but very reliable. And they rate on cosmetics very conservatively in my experience. Any "Bargain" grade items I've ever bought were what most camera stores would call "excellent +", and most ebay sellers would call "mint minus".

 

[swoop]

I think the only real issue with M8/M9's is if the rangedfinder is aligned. And an M8 having been upgraded is nice, but I've noticed the upgrade really makes no difference in the used market prices. Personally, I've rather had an M8/M9 that's been in to the shop for service rather than one that hasn't. My brand new M8 and M9 both required a trip to Leica and they were much better once in my hands.

 

[Pastor Chris]

I agree with most of what was said above; I purchased a used M8 just over a year ago from a dealer, for which I am endlessly glad. I battled with the dealer/private party issue but was glad for purchasing from a dealer only 2 weeks after I took delivery as the red-line issue surfaced with my sensor. The dealer took it back and negotiated its repair with Leica, good as new with a 1 year warranty from the factory. If there are no dealers near you, I have done quite a bit of business with B&H in New York and also some with KEH with excellent experiences with both parties. You should be able to find one from a reputable dealer in the US for sure, and probably Europe, but you would need to hear from some RFFers from there. I would heartily recommend buying one from a larger outfit that has a return policy or warranty for the camera, and then check it out as described above. I really noticed the red line, only one pixel wide, on shots against a dark background on ISO 1250 and above. Once I knew what to look for, I could detect it on some shots at 320 at 100% crop. You might even ask the dealer to email you some such shots prior to purchase, given you live a distance away. Good luck with your purchase, I just love mine!

 

[EXksporry]

Well, ultimately I'd go for an m8.2 rather than an m8. My (potentially flawed) understanding is that the m8.2 doesn't suffer the malfunctions of the m8. As for buying from b&w et al, I would trust them, but p&p to outside us is probably about 20% of the camera price, for which I might as well have any defects fixed by Leica in china if any would occur...

By the way, how much betteris the m9 (not considering the 8 extra mp)? And how much is a 2nd hand m9 going for these days?

 

[splitimageview]

How much better is the M9? That's a lot to cover in a forum post. 🙂

2nd hand M9: check the classifieds here...

 

[ayewing]

I bought a M8.2 second hand from a reputable dealer and I am glad it came with a 6 month warranty as it had the dreaded "coffee stain" on the monitor screen. This is a known problem and while it does not affect the recorded image it is irritating and very expensive to put right. When buying it is worth checking by photographing a uniform bright white surface e.g. sky, computer screen etc and look for any stains.

Leica repairs tend to be expensive so a warranty is highly desirable.

 

[EXksporry]

Ok, so far my understanding of common issues with the M8/8.2 is:
- "coffee stain"
- 1-pixel line across the image/banding
- Green Ghosting (though maybe this is on the M8 only?)
- RF alignment

Did I miss anything?

 

[Reddot9]

Shoot before you buy and...

Shoot before you buy and...

if at all possible take the camera with the owner to a reputable camera repair shop, preferably, one that has worked on Leica M's (digital too) and pay about $90.00 and have them check it out. They will run shutter speed checks, sensor cleanliness, etc. etc. I've done that a few times and it has paid off.

RD9

 

[wei-c]

I got mine (second hand, well preserved one) in Sep. 2011. I did the above checks and happily shot 1000+ pictures in a month. I'm pretty amazed by its image quality evan it was launched about 5 years ago and thought I can live with this M8 for a few years. One day it just stopped working (won't start up). After some inspection the Leica dealer (Taiwan) says it must be returned to Solms. In Solms they replaced the CCD ($700, ouch!) (correction: $1000)

3 months later (Jan, 2012) it was returned to my local dealer and there were still some problems and need to go back to Solms AGAIN...

Within my 5-months possession, it stays in Germany waiting to be served for 4 months (still counting...). I know there exists "healthy" M8's but mine clearly isn't one of them. I hate it that my first post is another complaint about the quality of Leica cameras.

Does anyone have similar experience like this? Does Leica do anything to compensate the losses of the time and money I put on this camera which I don't have in my hand? Honestly I'm quite frustrated and thinking about selling it when it is finally returned.