bwcolor
Veteran
My local C-41 lab is going bye bye.. so I've been using the search function, but have many questions...
1. I've only used stainless reels/tanks with 35mm/120 B&W. All how-to videos seem to use all plastic. Is it best that I purchase plastic tanks and reels and if so, do I go with adjustable, or fixed reels?
2. It seems that chemicals are either Kodak separates, Tetanal, or Arista kits. I could not find Fuji kits in US. I've seen criticism of Blix vs. separate bleach and fix. Also, mention that powdered Blix might be inferior to liquids such as found in the Arista C-41 kit. Is there a better kit? Is it best to to go with bleach/fix vs. Blix....Which chemicals have you settled on and why?
3. I will be developing in small quantities, so how do I keep chemicals fresh? Which chemicals age (ie..is it just developer)? What life do you get out of your chemicals and how do you keep them... ie freeze, or just guard against oxidation.
4. What can't or shouldn't be washed down the sink? If shouldn't, how do and what do you dispose of by other means and what are those means?
I want to go this route because the minilabs are going away and it takes me more time to drive the few remaining local labs and then back again than to just develop the film myself, but the fear of these factors has kept me from C-41 @ home.
Thanks in advance...
1. I've only used stainless reels/tanks with 35mm/120 B&W. All how-to videos seem to use all plastic. Is it best that I purchase plastic tanks and reels and if so, do I go with adjustable, or fixed reels?
2. It seems that chemicals are either Kodak separates, Tetanal, or Arista kits. I could not find Fuji kits in US. I've seen criticism of Blix vs. separate bleach and fix. Also, mention that powdered Blix might be inferior to liquids such as found in the Arista C-41 kit. Is there a better kit? Is it best to to go with bleach/fix vs. Blix....Which chemicals have you settled on and why?
3. I will be developing in small quantities, so how do I keep chemicals fresh? Which chemicals age (ie..is it just developer)? What life do you get out of your chemicals and how do you keep them... ie freeze, or just guard against oxidation.
4. What can't or shouldn't be washed down the sink? If shouldn't, how do and what do you dispose of by other means and what are those means?
I want to go this route because the minilabs are going away and it takes me more time to drive the few remaining local labs and then back again than to just develop the film myself, but the fear of these factors has kept me from C-41 @ home.
Thanks in advance...
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
imokruok
Well-known
1. No problem with stainless if you can easily load them. Plastic is just easier for a lot of people. I am not aware of any chemical reactions with the steel that could cause a problem.
2. I use the powder. It's cheap, I don't process a lot, and I don't have to worry about expiration dates prior to mixing. Plus, I don't believe it needs special shipping. In my opinion, initial results are comparable to other processes. However, for long term negative storage, I have read that other kits provide more longevity.
3. Use dark accordion bottles if you can find them for the mixed chemicals. If you're using liquid kits and have partially used concentrates, I spray wine preserver (argon gas) into the bottles before re-capping them. (I use the 6-step Kodak E6 kit, and I use it over the course of several months this way.)
4. There are several schools of thought on this. You can take the chemicals for disposal. Some people do dump them down the drain with plenty of water. Some people mix all of the chemicals together to neutralize things as much as possible, and then dump them down the drain with plenty of water. It's not the problem with C41 that you might think, as most of the time you're reusing the kit. Note that people will often mention formaldehyde as a concern, but most every kit out there doesn't use it anymore.
Final thought: a good thermometer takes a lot of uncertainty out of the process. I went and got a Thermapen (http://is.gd/bRdrX). They run about $100, but you can stick it in your developer, and it will read to the tenth of a degree in about two seconds. Not necessary, but I like the extra control. (Plus, you can clean it off and use it to check a turkey...)
2. I use the powder. It's cheap, I don't process a lot, and I don't have to worry about expiration dates prior to mixing. Plus, I don't believe it needs special shipping. In my opinion, initial results are comparable to other processes. However, for long term negative storage, I have read that other kits provide more longevity.
3. Use dark accordion bottles if you can find them for the mixed chemicals. If you're using liquid kits and have partially used concentrates, I spray wine preserver (argon gas) into the bottles before re-capping them. (I use the 6-step Kodak E6 kit, and I use it over the course of several months this way.)
4. There are several schools of thought on this. You can take the chemicals for disposal. Some people do dump them down the drain with plenty of water. Some people mix all of the chemicals together to neutralize things as much as possible, and then dump them down the drain with plenty of water. It's not the problem with C41 that you might think, as most of the time you're reusing the kit. Note that people will often mention formaldehyde as a concern, but most every kit out there doesn't use it anymore.
Final thought: a good thermometer takes a lot of uncertainty out of the process. I went and got a Thermapen (http://is.gd/bRdrX). They run about $100, but you can stick it in your developer, and it will read to the tenth of a degree in about two seconds. Not necessary, but I like the extra control. (Plus, you can clean it off and use it to check a turkey...)
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bwcolor
Veteran
The link that you site was what got me going this direction.
I was thinking that maybe stainless changed temperature as you agitate and that was why folks used plastic.
Six step Kodak Kit... I thought that they stopped selling the Kodak kits.
I was thinking that maybe stainless changed temperature as you agitate and that was why folks used plastic.
Six step Kodak Kit... I thought that they stopped selling the Kodak kits.
yukio
 
Hi Bw,
I think plastic is a good idea because of the heat conductivity like you mention. This is less of an issue with c41 than e6 because of e6's longer processing times, but no reason not to play it safe. Besides, once you try c41, you'll want to do e6!
Kodak no longer sells a c41 kit, but they do still sell an e6 kit, which is what imokruok was referring to.
It sounds like you might be concerned about the potential longevity issues with using blix? If the 3-step kits give you pause, Photographer's Formulary has started offering a c41 kit which is just a repackaging of the Kodak Flexicolor chemistry in a 1L portion. It's $30, which is expensive if you follow the roll-per-liter guidelines given by Kodak, but it could be a way to test your process before you invest in the much more readily available bulk chemistry from kodak.
d.
I think plastic is a good idea because of the heat conductivity like you mention. This is less of an issue with c41 than e6 because of e6's longer processing times, but no reason not to play it safe. Besides, once you try c41, you'll want to do e6!
Kodak no longer sells a c41 kit, but they do still sell an e6 kit, which is what imokruok was referring to.
It sounds like you might be concerned about the potential longevity issues with using blix? If the 3-step kits give you pause, Photographer's Formulary has started offering a c41 kit which is just a repackaging of the Kodak Flexicolor chemistry in a 1L portion. It's $30, which is expensive if you follow the roll-per-liter guidelines given by Kodak, but it could be a way to test your process before you invest in the much more readily available bulk chemistry from kodak.
d.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Stainless steel tanks and reels have less thermal capacity (i.e. it takes less heat to warm them up) so theoretically, unless everything starts out at the right temperature and stays that way, they'll get to the right temperature faster and cool the dev less. Room temperature plastic sucks a LOT of heat out of the dev.
All the tests I've ever read about accordion bottles suggest that they are for the most part surprisingly oxygen-permeable. Glass bottles and Protectan or similar (that's Tetenal's anti-oxidation spray) are a better bet.
Cheers,
R.
All the tests I've ever read about accordion bottles suggest that they are for the most part surprisingly oxygen-permeable. Glass bottles and Protectan or similar (that's Tetenal's anti-oxidation spray) are a better bet.
Cheers,
R.
dfoo
Well-known
I can say from experience that developing in plastic tanks in a cold room sucks the heat out of the developer something fierce especially when using small quantities of developer and rotary processing. I develop in my basement which during the winter can be cold (12 degrees or so). The developer starts off at 20 degrees. After 10 minutes of rotary processing it dropped to about 16 degrees.
Penceler
Established
Plastic is fine - just prewarm the tank before adding chemistry. The whole "conductivity" issue cuts both ways.
John
John
Penceler
Established
Sorry, meant to say either plastic or metal is fine.
bwcolor
Veteran
RE: C-41...Has the issue of Blix vs. separates been resolved? I've read that Blix might result in less storage stability and other negative attributes. If this is the case, I gather that many of these Blix Kits come in separate bleach and fixer and they are combined prior to use. Could these just be used as separates and is it worth the effort?
imokruok
Well-known
Interesting...I've never heard that, but good to know. I actually am not using the accordion ones right now, though. I have a few 1L black Jobo bottles from B&H, which I use with the wine spray.
bwcolor
Veteran
Thanks for the help. I ordered the Tetenal Liquid kit from B&H. I'll Email Tetenal and ask my questions regarding Fixer/Bleach.