Caffenol...What Went Wrong?

David Goldfarb said:
Washing soda is sodium carbonate. Baking soda is sodium bicarbonate. Caustic soda is sodium hydroxide (lye) and it gets very hot when you add it to water. These things are NOT interchangeable (well, sodium carbonate and sodium hydroxide can both make your developer more alkaline, but the proportions are very different for the same change in pH).

In New York I've found washing soda at supermarkets in Latino neighborhoods. A box of washing soda is way more than you'll use any time soon developing film, so try it in your laundry. It works!
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Considering I'm just trying this for the novelty of it, I think a box will amount to a lifetime supply. Yep, it'll go in the laundry so as not to be wasted.
 
Are you guys suggesting that no other "chemicals" would be needed for film developing? Such ingredients would be approved by my wife!
 
You can make Sodium Carbonate out of Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) by heating the baking soda in a pan. Watch out, though, it's messy -- little geysers of steam blowing baking soda all over.

Ben
 
Raid, you would also need vinegar solution as a stop, and a fixer, and the fixer is difficult sea water was used in the old days but it takes ages i understand, never tried it
 
Benjamin Marks said:
You can make Sodium Carbonate out of Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) by heating the baking soda in a pan. Watch out, though, it's messy -- little geysers of steam blowing baking soda all over.

Ben
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I think I'll pass on that one.

Raid,
Yes, apparently this does work. People have been doing it for some time.
Google "caffenol."
With the vitamin c added, it is supposed to produce pretty decent results. I'll be doing it without the vitamin c, because I already know how to get pretty good results. I'm looking for pretty bad results that I'll like anyway.
 
This is cool. Thanks! I need to become a developing-chef in the kitchen to get the job done.
 
washing soda

washing soda

Actually some folks still do use it - both for the boost, and for making your own soap (google make your own detergent) or detergent.

From a couple of reviews I've seen, it matches Costco's bulk soap in washing power, but the Costco price is only about a penny more per load.

I'd still like to try it sometime with the kids to see how it works, the recipes are very simple, but some look a bit messy.

luketrash said:
I had to search my entire city to find washing soda. One grocery store (Cub Food) carried it in the area near the laundry detergent.

Back in the old days, people used to add it to their detergent to give it a kick. Present-day, nobody really uses it anymore.

Just us crazy film people and the hotrodders use it to remove rust from car parts with electrolysis.

It's very cheap (under two dollars.)
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Ok, 1 trip to home depot later...I'm the proud owner of 6 lbs of sodium carbonate.
Since I need only 2 tsp, this should last me a while.
 
Keith said:
Hey ... the cafenol freaks are at it. Don't forget to drink the solution after you've finished for that added buzz! :p

Washing soda is apparently also sold as water softener ... if you add it water that is very hard and doesn't lather much all your clothes come out nice and soft and fluffy!
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I bought it as a product for pool maintenance...tipped off by someone earlier in this thread.
Ph UP
 
Sparrow said:
Benjamin Marks said:
You can make Sodium Carbonate out of Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) by heating the baking soda in a pan. Watch out, though, it's messy -- little geysers of steam blowing baking soda all over.

Ben
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how hot and how long?
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Don't do it! Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) does decompose when heated, but it turns into sodium hydroxide, not sodium carbonate. Sodium hydroxide is VERY dangerous! Get even a small bit of it in your eye, and you had better take a quick look around, as that is the last you will be seeing with it!

Sodium carbonate will buffer coffee to the correct pH for use as a developer. Sodium bicarbonate will not be alkaline enough to work, and sodium hydroxide will be far too alkaline, and the measurement needed to buffer it requires precise measuring devices not found in many homes (burets and pH meters.)

So ... just use washing soda.
 
Keith - I rather liked the effect you got in the last batch. Luketrash's results (above) look too "normal".

Oh, and I posted the film this afternoon. :)
 
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Chris101 said:
Don't do it! Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) does decompose when heated, but it turns into sodium hydroxide, not sodium carbonate. Sodium hydroxide is VERY dangerous! Get even a small bit of it in your eye, and you had better take a quick look around, as that is the last you will be seeing with it!

Sodium carbonate will buffer coffee to the correct pH for use as a developer. Sodium bicarbonate will not be alkaline enough to work, and sodium hydroxide will be far too alkaline, and the measurement needed to buffer it requires precise measuring devices not found in many homes (burets and pH meters.)

So ... just use washing soda.
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Too late……. I’ve already tried caustic soda which is sodium hydroxide, we use it as a drain cleaner domestically so I’m aware of its properties.

2tsp caustic soda
6tst Nescafe classic
In 350ml of warter at 55-60 degrees

Gave me completely clear negatives
:eek:

PS I’m going to try a test strip keeping the coffee, water, and time constant and varying the caustic soda proportion
 
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gb hill said:
Is Folgers the only coffee that will work? and does it have to be the instant kind?
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It's not easy to get enough concentration of the developing agent(s) in coffee from brewed coffee, unless perhaps you boil it down. When I tried caffenol, I used a dusty old jar of instant coffee (Nescafe, I think it was) that I found in the back of a drawer in the office.

Now one thing I've wondered about is this--If you make drip coffee or espresso, the coffee that comes out at the beginning tastes better, and the coffee that comes out later is more bitter. So say we extract a good expresso with the essential oils and aromatics at the beginning of the pull, might there still be a lot of useful developing agents (caffeic acid, tannins, catechol, and others) making the coffee bitter, if one continues to force water through the grounds after the point at which you would stop for a good coffee? You know: a shot of espresso, a shot of developer.
 
I have a Gaggia café-deluxe, and I always think what a waste it is when I empty the drip tray, I may start collecting it

I’m thinking Robusta beans have the sharper flavours
 
I tried Tri-X in Caffenol yesterday. I used the standard non-citric acid fomula for 30 min @ 20C, a 1 min plain water stop and a 4 minute fix in TF-4. These are just quick backyard shots just so I'd have something to develop... not great shots by any means.

I've attached the results but I have to admit I'm a little disappointed that they didn't turn out like the ones Keith posted in the other Caffenol thread.

Ash
 

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AshenLight said:
I tried Tri-X in Caffenol yesterday. I used the standard non-citric acid fomula for 30 min @ 20C, a 1 min plain water stop and a 4 minute fix in TF-4. These are just quick backyard shots just so I'd have something to develop... not great shots by any means.

I've attached the results but I have to admit I'm a little disappointed that they didn't turn out like the ones Keith posted in the other Caffenol thread.

Ash
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Yea, unless the process adds some character, I've got other developers I like.
It is a fun idea to try though. Next time, maybe I'll get it right.
 
David Goldfarb said:
It's not easy to get enough concentration of the developing agent(s) in coffee from brewed coffee, unless perhaps you boil it down. When I tried caffenol, I used a dusty old jar of instant coffee (Nescafe, I think it was) that I found in the back of a drawer in the office.
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Possible stupid question here, I not being a photo chemist by any means, is it the caffeine, the alkaloid, itself in coffee that is the developing agent, or is it something else, or are caffeine and other ingredients necessary?

If it's caffeine alone, I would think that plain old generic No-Doz (caffeine, USP) tablets might work better.
 
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