Caffenol...What Went Wrong?

[AshenLight]

Yea, unless the process adds some character, I've got other developers I like.
It is a fun idea to try though. Next time, maybe I'll get it right.

I guess its the "wow" factor of pouring instant coffee and soda into your tank and seeing developed film come out the other end. Unless I was able to consistently get Keith-like effects from this formula I doubt very much it would be something I'd use on a regular basis. I may try one more time with HP5 to see if it makes a difference. I need to use up the Folger's instant coffee anyway. God knows it isn't fit to drink... in fact, I'd rather drink the sodium carbonate solution

Ash

 

[Disaster_Area]

If you want to make sodium carbonate from Baking soda.. just put it in a baking pan with a lid, pre-heat the oven to 225F and bake for 15-20 min.. sodium bicarbonate breaks down in to soduim carbonate at 200

 

[Disaster_Area]

just make sure it's not a sealed pan, leave a crack for the C02 and water vapour to escape

 

[AshenLight]

Possible stupid question here, I not being a photo chemist by any means, is it the caffeine, the alkaloid, itself in coffee that is the developing agent, or is it something else, or are caffeine and other ingredients necessary?

If it's caffeine alone, I would think that plain old generic No-Doz (caffeine, USP) tablets might work better.

I guess it would interesting (and easy enough) to try decaf Folgers and see if the results are the same all other things being equal. If it worked it would show that caffeine itself isn't the active developing agent. If its some kind of superadditive effect with caffeine and the other components of the coffee my previous assertion is null and void. The down side of this experiment is that I'd have a jar of decaf Folgers in addition to the regular stuff. Decaf Folgers strikes me as being as pointless as alcohol free beer

 

[David Goldfarb]

Patrick Gainer tested this (I think he used No-Doz tablets) and determined that the caffeine isn't the developing agent. I think the current consensus is that caffeic acid is the main developing agent, and there are also things like catechol in coffee that are developing agents.

 

[Sparrow]

I found this by Dr. Scott Williams, Rochester Institute of Technology

Coffee contains just about every type of molecule known to nature, including proteins, lipids and carbohydrates, but that "go-juice" that many of us cannot do without also contains a group of molecules known as phenols. One of these is called caffeic acid (Figure 1a). Compare it with the molecule of catechol, an effective photographic developer (Figure 1b). Coffee contains several other phenols which closely match not only catechol, but also several of the other hydroxy containing developer agents used in photography. Caffeine, a molecule which is larger than a benzene ring (Figure 1c), also has all of the constituents of an effective developer.

http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-coffee.html

 

[gb hill]

It's not easy to get enough concentration of the developing agent(s) in coffee from brewed coffee, unless perhaps you boil it down. When I tried caffenol, I used a dusty old jar of instant coffee (Nescafe, I think it was) that I found in the back of a drawer in the office.

Now one thing I've wondered about is this--If you make drip coffee or espresso, the coffee that comes out at the beginning tastes better, and the coffee that comes out later is more bitter. So say we extract a good expresso with the essential oils and aromatics at the beginning of the pull, might there still be a lot of useful developing agents (caffeic acid, tannins, catechol, and others) making the coffee bitter, if one continues to force water through the grounds after the point at which you would stop for a good coffee? You know: a shot of espresso, a shot of developer.

I had read that the only coffee that worked was Folgers instant. When I read you used Nescafe I was a bit shocked. I also scratched my head and wondered why brewed coffee wouldn't work. Then again I concluded "It must be the flavor crystals"

 

[Sparrow]

I have negatives drying

3 double espressos
2 tbl spoons washing soda
30min starting at about 35c, agitating every 2.5min

scans to follow

 

[Sparrow]

10 min pre-soak
30 min starting at about 35c then allowed to cool, agitating every 2.5 min

stopped with a bit of de-scalar, fixed with hypo

suggestions welcome for refining the process

http://www.flickr.com/photos/19217760@N05/

PS sorry about the thumbnails, flickr seems to think for itself

 

[Sparrow]

It was scanned as a colour negative, a tiff file, then I just set levels in Photoshop. That’s the colour they came out, the hp5’s base colour and the stain from the coffee has resulted in a fairly neutral negative, I was expecting blue or purple prints.

I would guess at that dilution and time I’ve gained maybe two stops, the negs are slightly fogged overall and very dense, knowing that it would be difficult not to refine the next roll, I don’t want to change the look but it seems wrong to deliberately introduce an error.

I like the pics too, they’ve got me thinking about all sorts of suitable subjects, #4 reminds me of a painting……but I can’t remember which one

 

[titrisol]

Washing soda = sodium carbonate
also found as phPlus, Crystal Soda, Soda,
In the US it was easy to find in the laundry section, next to Arm&Hammer Borax.

First, perhaps I should ask, what is "washing soda?"

Fixer can not be replaced easily, the thipsulphate does a great job in taking the silver salts away so that they do not react with light anymore. Thiosulpharte is safe to thorw away/store, it is the remaining silver the problem for the environment

Raid, you would also need vinegar solution as a stop, and a fixer, and the fixer is difficult sea water was used in the old days but it takes ages i understand, never tried it

I found this by Dr. Scott Williams, Rochester Institute of Technology
http://people.rit.edu/andpph/text-coffee.html

Any instant coffee will do, I tried it with the Food Lion and the ALDI home brands with no problem, and decaf works as well. The main developer is the caffeic acid and the tanninns (dark coloured) present in coffee which are chemically similar to cathequin. Caffein tablets (no-doze) do not work. Dr. Williams and Dr Savidhazy form RIT are very nice people and they were very responsive to my queries on cofee, mint and other stuff as developers.

As per factors of success they vary a lot, things I have learned NOT to do:
- Do not use hot caffenol (Stain is too dark) keep it cool (25C or less)
- Do not use APX400

Then each coffee brand needs some fine tuning, but the main guidelines are OK.
DT Formulas are based on DonaldQualls, and the amount mentioned there is for 8oz (~250 ml) so for a 300 ml tank (12oz) you need 1 more tsp of each or some more time.

The difference between 30 and 60 minutes is not so big.

 

[David Goldfarb]

I had read that the only coffee that worked was Folgers instant. When I read you used Nescafe I was a bit shocked. I also scratched my head and wondered why brewed coffee wouldn't work. Then again I concluded "It must be the flavor crystals"

I think we'll need a "live taste test" to resolve this.

 

[AshenLight]

Stewart,

Your results are the type I was hoping for when I tried the experiment myself ... much more like Keith's original results than the results I was able to achieve. I wouldn't change a thing, just add it to the arsenal.

Ash

 

[ampguy]

The place where I used to see washing soda no longer has it, so I'm going to give Oxy Clean a try. My coffee will be UCC "The Blend" crystals

 

[ampguy]

Hi Keith

Hi Keith

Do you have the link to your first batch of tinted photos? When I do find some washing soda, I want to try to get that look.

Thanks!

Hey ... the cafenol freaks are at it. Don't forget to drink the solution after you've finished for that added buzz!

Washing soda is apparently also sold as water softener ... if you add it water that is very hard and doesn't lather much all your clothes come out nice and soft and fluffy!

 

[ampguy]

Thanks Keith

Thanks Keith

btw, 4 heaping teaspoons of instant coffee with 4 heaping teaspoons of oxy clean (which contains washing soda + other stuff) for 15 minutes doesn't work, gonna have to find that washing soda!

No worries Ted ... http://wheelie52.zenfolio.com/p242991481/slideshow

I've been collecting the coffee that drips from my espresso machine after making the shot and now have about a litre of it ... that will be my next experiment but because the solution may be a little weaker I'll probably use a couple of hours stand development!

Good luck with your cafenol!

 

[ampguy]

Keith - what film type

Keith - what film type

Looking again at those tints, it's hard to imagine it was a b/w film you used, unless a C41 type??

No worries Ted ... http://wheelie52.zenfolio.com/p242991481/slideshow

I've been collecting the coffee that drips from my espresso machine after making the shot and now have about a litre of it ... that will be my next experiment but because the solution may be a little weaker I'll probably use a couple of hours stand development!

Good luck with your cafenol!

 

[titrisol]

The place where I used to see washing soda no longer has it, so I'm going to give Oxy Clean a try. My coffee will be UCC "The Blend" crystals

OxyClean has some oxygen source (a.k.a. peroxide) in it, so it'll bleach your negatives.

 

[Sparrow]

What we need is a way to accurately measure the Ph of the solution, then any base could be used, as I understand it all the sodium carbonate is doing is reducing the acidity to a point where the cafenol can react with the film.

 

[Sparrow]

what's the fog like?