cameras are tools...really?

sitemistic said:
I can't imagine spending a large part of my life doing something I hated. Interesting.
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99% of the world can imagine it quite well, in my humble estimation. A good portion of us are happy to have jobs at all, and hating them is just self-therapy that lets them get through the day.

Having spent a bit of time with the privileged few who do not have to work - or who actually have jobs they love - I find that they are 'amazed' by a lot of things that the hoi polloi do, feel, and think.

Besides, I never said I hated what I *do*. I hate *working* and I hate *going to meaningless endless meetings* and *explaining technical details to idiot managers who will never understand what I do anyway* and *paying taxes* and *getting up early* and *pretending to be happy before my coffee* and various other little things. At the moment, I've discovered that my shoe leaks a bit and it has filled up with melted snow from the parking lot and I hate *that*.
 
kevin m said:
Really? Leica makes tools for professional use?
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What this have to do with hammers, or their features?

And there's only so much truly "pro cameras" exist at any given moment, those that either sold to professionals only (none now), or have pro support service associated. The rest of "pro" buzz is just marketing sticker-job, much like "turbo" in the 1980s.

But many more makes and models are actually used by professionals daily, including Leica M (and M8).

And, to continue the hammer analogy, do you opt not to make pneumatic nail guns out of a misguided nostalgia for hickory handles and ball peens?
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They make and sell R system, if we continue this line of flawed analogies. Some of the most notable, professional to their chin folks (like Salgado) use them.
 
For me, I think that Nick's definition #4 works better; I see my cameras as
4. Something used in the performance of an operation; an instrument:
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But I still do not mean to ever use the term tool as a pejorative.

And I will not presume to tell anyone how they approach this hobby/craft/profession/obsession.

My dad who has been a serious amateur woodworker for a lot of years now owns a lot of tools. Do any of them have sentimental value or other emotional investment for him? I won't speak for him but I do remember that he once broke a screwdriver blade. And was pretty upset about it. Wanting to be helpful, I reminded him that the brand has a lifetime warranty--he could just take it to any store selling them and get a new one. The screw driver with the broken blade is still in the top drawer of his work bench; it was his dad's and he's not giving that tool up, useful or not.

My point here is that "tool" or "fetish" doesn't really matter to any one else but the owner. I like and own FSU cameras. I can rationalize them any number of ways but it really boils down to: I think they are (mostly) elegant little machines, a physical manifestation of a different culture than I know, and-honestly-no one else around me is using them.

As I have said before though, I'm not a working photographer so I have the luxury of choosing my tools based on my needs and not The Job's needs.

Rob
 
I have been involved in a number of trades over my life so far, professions that used tools. In not one of them were these tools of the trade ever dismissed as "well, its only a thing".

Walk into a kitchen and touch another cook's knives and you will see what I mean. Walk inito a fab shop and say out loud that Miller welders are for wussies and dilettantes and collectors, and real pros use Lincoln - just be prepared to run like hell. People researching the esoterica of the chemical reactions of life will spend hours over beer debating the merits of different DNA sequencers, mass spectrometers, HPLC's and on and on. Winemakers get together at international trade shows and argue the merits of this barrel over that, or press, or forklift.

I use a press that cost $60K, only does red wine, and only holds 4 tons. This is the perfect tool for my artisanal production. It makes no sense at all for other wineries. But a few years ago Mondavi decided they wanted to make wines in the same style, but on their scale. They built a new winery for something like $20MM that was designed around using just this same small, specialized tool.

The urge to collect is separate from the urnge to use tools with skill and pride. The two impulses can coexist in the same human without violating any rules or leading to the end of civilization.
 
kevin m said:
Really? Leica makes tools for professional use? How many photographers have nothing but a Leica M, film or digital, in their camera bags?
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Any camera can be used for professional use. A great many members here are earning money with their M cameras.
 
man o man!

i said this was about the hobbyist, not the pro making his living with a camera. to a pro a camera is a tool, nuff said.
but as a hobbyist a tool is the last thing on my mind. i like the colour, shape, fit & feel of my gear. i like lenses that do the job in terms of enough sharpness for the pics i like to take.

and why the heck does a conversation like this always have to come down to a leica bashing session. ever notice how that happens and how the same few folks , the leica haters, seem always ready to form the attack line.
you guys are so friggen noticable and no one is willing to say stfu to you. hate does not belong on this site/forum, plain & simple. and if you can't keep it in your pants then go somewhere else! please.

i don't use leicas, but i have and could if i chose to, but i don't have a need to complain to everyone about those who do.
get over yourselves.

joe
 
foto_fool said:
The urge to collect is separate from the urnge to use tools with skill and pride. The two impulses can coexist in the same human without violating any rules or leading to the end of civilization.
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I totally agree. One can even cross those lines oneself - collecting cameras AND using them as tools from time to time.
 
Joe, your original post made me reflect a bit, I realized that I use my cameras as both a toy (as in object bringing me lots of enjoyment) and a tool. A camera becomes a tool for me when I really “get into” shooting something in particular and almost completely forget even what camera I am holding and can only think of composition and exposure. I am of course a total amateur and take picture mostly for fun but occasionally I get asked to shoot something for a friend or family etc and – if I like the “assignment” – I find I can get completely consumed by it, it is sooo much fun!
 
There is a jar on my desk with half a dozen #8 V&R design brushes in it, all that I have left from the 40 or so I bought when the company that made them went out of business, best tool for the job baring none, the odd thing is I’ve worked exclusively on computer now for almost 20 years, I suppose I’m covering myself in case there’s a power-cut
I don’t see why I shouldn’t be attached to the tools of my trade however,
 
Simply...

A camera is a tool designed to create pictures...

just sometimes the pictures are in our head... not on film or paper.

It works both ways.
 
...and why the heck does a conversation like this always have to come down to a leica bashing session. ever notice how that happens and how the same few folks , the leica haters, seem always ready to form the attack line.
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The Leica haters? What are you talking about? I've owned/used/loved Leicas. I just hope they remain a going concern in the digital future. And, as I said, catering to collectors and people (me included) who appreciate "the finer things" isn't going to do that.

And to answer your question: Cameras ARE tools. Really.
 
back alley said:
man o man!


and why the heck does a conversation like this always have to come down to a leica bashing session. ever notice how that happens and how the same few folks , the leica haters, seem always ready to form the attack line.

joe
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I have two Leicas. A M2 and a M4-P with some lenses. I am fond of these cameras for what they can produce as well as the fact that I've had them for quite a while.

There may in fact be "Leica haters", but we also have the "Leica evangelists" and a rather extreme group called "Enlightened Leica owners". "Enlightened Leica owners" just ask embarrasing questions of "Leica evangelists".

Enlightened Leica owners just realize Leicas are just darned nice tools and really deserve no special respect.
 
Keith said:
I remember as an apprentice motor mechanic I would always clean all my tools and make sure they were hanging back in my spotless tool cabinet before I could leave work. People would come over and look at my immaculate work area and shake their heads and walk off.

My cameras are just tools but I still take an immense amount of pride in them and gain a lot of pleasure from their mechanical precision. I still have to be happy with my own ability to take decent photos though ... as I needed to be confident that I was a competent mechanic! :)
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I think that approach says a lot about attitude -- the shop that maintains my car is probably cleaner than my house and the technicians are extremely good at spotting potential problems and correcting them when they're cheap -- much the same way that a good photographer is prepared to make the most of a situation.

Pro gear is brassed and worn precisely because it is used. Most pros I have worked with over the years (there are some notable exceptions) aren't obsessive about their cameras but they are very careful that they are always in working condition.
 
Cameras as tools and objects D' art

Cameras as tools and objects D' art

I am not a Camera Collector, I use everything I own. But I treat my cameras with respect. Some would be shocked to find that I use original Civil War era cameras daily in my studio, anything else would not give the same results. I am careful with my Leica IIIb that that was once owned by a Nazi officer captured at Normandy, but I still shoot with it at WW2 reenactments. I own a 1965 Jaguar XKE that I take to get groceries or out for a drive when ever the mood strikes. I don't baby it, but I don't abuse it either. Many treat their cameras like many of the cars I see at shows, we call them trailer queens. There is nothing wrong with just collecting and displaying, but I feel that cameras like automobiles, are meant to be use. Those that put them on a pedestal are missing the enjoyment of using them, and the beautify of their performance and function. As one gets older and looks back on their life, they find Its the journey, not the destination, that is the most memorable.
 
ww2photog said:
I am not a Camera Collector, I use everything I own. But I treat my cameras with respect. Some would be shocked to find that I use original Civil War era cameras daily in my studio, anything else would not give the same results. I am careful with my Leica IIIb that that was once owned by a Nazi officer captured at Normandy, but I still shoot with it at WW2 reenactments. I own a 1965 Jaguar XKE that I take to get groceries or out for a drive when ever the mood strikes. I don't baby it, but I don't abuse it either. Many treat their cameras like many of the cars I see at shows, we call them trailer queens. There is nothing wrong with just collecting and displaying, but I feel that cameras like automobiles, are meant to be use. Those that put them on a pedestal are missing the enjoyment of using them, and the beautify of their performance and function. As one gets older and looks back on their life, they find Its the journey, not the destination, that is the most memorable.
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These arguments rage eternally. Hot Rod collectors not only complain about trailer queens, they also bitch and moan mightily about those who restore themselves versus just writing a check to have Boyd Coddington do the work.

It doesn't matter. If it is your money, your car, do what you want with it. If you enjoy what you are doing and what you have, nothing else matters, nor does anyone's opinion of it.

If I buy a camera because I like the way it looks, or if I admire it for how well it was made, and I choose to put it on a shelf and never use it to avoid damage - so what? Who cares? How is it anyone else's business?

People used to complain about collectors taking cameras out of circulation, so they could not be used by enthusiasts. I think that is hardly the issue anymore - thousands and thousands of cameras are being dumped on eBay and so on.

Let people do what they want with their cameras. Fondle - fine. Admire - groovy. Use for work - excellent. Bang it up - cool. Protect it while using it - great. I really fail to understand why ANYONE thinks they have a right to dictate how another should care for or use their own property. If it doesn't float your personal boat, then don't do it. But don't criticize those who do.
 
I really fail to understand why ANYONE thinks they have a right to dictate how another should care for or use their own property.
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You've made that clear. But nobody here's saying anything about it. You can decorate the bottom of your fishtank with mint black Nikon SP's for all I care. :)

What I DO care about is that Leica isn't taking chances or innovating here in the digital age, the most exciting time in photography most of us will ever see.
 
back alley said:
and why the heck does a conversation like this always have to come down to a leica bashing session. ever notice how that happens and how the same few folks , the leica haters, seem always ready to form the attack line.
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Having a rough day, Joe?

The way I read Joe's original post, he set up the hobbyist/pro dichotomy. The evolution of the thread has introduced the collector/user split. I'm not seeing any direct Leica "bashing" by "Leica haters" here.

Sure there are some posters who seem compelled in every thread to express the same mantra of personal disdain for Leica evangelists - though not for the gear itself. I'm pretty sure it is not actually the average Leica-phile that the disdainers are railing against - more those Leica users who feel that a particular bit of red-dot branded gear gives them a special edge compared to other gear :rolleyes:. It does seem that this particular sort of scorn frequently gets conflated with a more general (and IMO, unwarranted) scorn for collectors or "fondlers".

Joe makes a good point that it would be better if these posters adopted bmattock's "live-and-let-live" approach - at least I personally would not miss seeing this divisive attitude expressed over and over.

As I wrote above, I think every one of us resides somewhere on several spectra of behavior simultaneously: user, collector, Leica/Zeiss/Canon/Nikon/etc. and on and on. And I agree with bmattock that each of us is entitled to our own equilibrium, without having to be subjected to the slings and arrows of those who don't share the same exact space. Why this should cause cognitive dissonance in some is a mystery to me.
 
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