williaty
Established
I have previously only owned SLRs, TLRs, and view cameras. Mamiya used to come once a year to my art school and turn all of us kids loose with tens of thousands of dollars of gear, which enabled me to use the 7II rangefinder on several occasions. That's the only rangefinder I've ever used. In the interveniening decades, I had sold off all my film equipment but I'm getting back into it in MF and LF. However, someone just gifted me with several hundred frames of 35mm film, so that clearly demands I get a 35mm camera to use it :angel: Since I've never had a rangefinder before, I figure this is a good time to try one. I don't know enough about the market to know what to buy, which is where I hope you all can help me. I do have some idea of what I want, and hopefully that will allow you guys to make a recommendation.
1) Small and lightweight. If it's big, I may as well carry a MF TLR.
2) Very good/clear/easy to see viewfinder. I have major trouble seeing through most 35mm SLRs/DSLRs these days due to my eyesight and glasses (which is why I've started using MF and LF almost exclusively).
3) Reasonable lens selection that includes a moderately wide (30-35mm), normal (50-ish), and moderate telephoto (85mm-ish) all of which are f/2.8 or faster. Preferably f/2 or faster but that's not a deal breaker.
4) Available working reliably on the used market. I have gotten into waaaaay too many used equipment goose chases lately where it's taken 4-5 tries to get on that works properly. I want something common enough and reliable enough that I can just buy one and work with it.
5) Viewfinder that won't scratch up glasses. I guess this is actually #2.5!
6) Lower price end of the scale. I'd like to stay <$300 with the body and one lens, but <$500 would be the absolute limit.
7) Lenses must NOT require auxiliary viewfinder and the viewfinder in the camera needs to have marks for framing of various lenses.
8) No meter required
9) Must have fully manual mode (if it has other modes too, that's fine, I'll just never use them)
Is there anything out there that comes close to matching what I want?
1) Small and lightweight. If it's big, I may as well carry a MF TLR.
2) Very good/clear/easy to see viewfinder. I have major trouble seeing through most 35mm SLRs/DSLRs these days due to my eyesight and glasses (which is why I've started using MF and LF almost exclusively).
3) Reasonable lens selection that includes a moderately wide (30-35mm), normal (50-ish), and moderate telephoto (85mm-ish) all of which are f/2.8 or faster. Preferably f/2 or faster but that's not a deal breaker.
4) Available working reliably on the used market. I have gotten into waaaaay too many used equipment goose chases lately where it's taken 4-5 tries to get on that works properly. I want something common enough and reliable enough that I can just buy one and work with it.
5) Viewfinder that won't scratch up glasses. I guess this is actually #2.5!
6) Lower price end of the scale. I'd like to stay <$300 with the body and one lens, but <$500 would be the absolute limit.
7) Lenses must NOT require auxiliary viewfinder and the viewfinder in the camera needs to have marks for framing of various lenses.
8) No meter required
9) Must have fully manual mode (if it has other modes too, that's fine, I'll just never use them)
Is there anything out there that comes close to matching what I want?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Voigtländer Bessa-R series.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Bessa R2. Pretty clear and brilliant viewfinder, got an excellent lightmeter and can be used with 35,50,75 and 90mm lens with no extra viewfinder.
Got mine on ebay for $250.00 (body). Voightlander lens are excellent and not that expensive. Totally mechanical, batteries are only needed for meter.
https://www.cameraquest.com/voigtBR2.htm
Marcelo
Got mine on ebay for $250.00 (body). Voightlander lens are excellent and not that expensive. Totally mechanical, batteries are only needed for meter.
https://www.cameraquest.com/voigtBR2.htm
Marcelo
jim_jm
Well-known
I'll second Roger's recommendation. I was first thinking of a Leica M6, but then saw your budget limit. There are plenty of the R2 and R3 models available on the used market. If you buy from the Classifieds here, or from a reliable seller (KEH, Igor's Camera Exchange, Sherry Krauter, Cameraquest, etc.) you should be able to get one in good working order.
Here's a good place to start: https://cameraquest.com/voigtrwhich.htm
Good Luck!
Here's a good place to start: https://cameraquest.com/voigtrwhich.htm
Good Luck!
YouAreHere
Established
For another option, look at the Canon P.
mpaniagua
Newby photographer
Agree. Great robust and reliable camera. Only drawback is it will need external viewfinder for anything besides 50mm.
williaty
Established
The Bessa-R looks very interesting! On eBay, I'm seeing versions not covered by the link helpfully included above. For instance, what's a LTM?
LTM = Leica thread mount
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Look at the Contax G series. The viewfinder changes to reflect the frame. While it's not a true rangefinder, I found them to be a very good fit to hand and a bit more modern with AF/AE and a superb build quality.
williaty
Established
So it looks like the Bessa R2M would be the model I'd prefer. However, it kind of blows my budget by rather a lot. How much of a step down is the R2 compared to the R2M?
Brian Legge
Veteran
Depending on your glasses, you might have a difficult time seeing the wider framelines on many rangefinders. I'd really suggest getting your hands on a camera before buying it if at all possible to insure the framelines are visible for you.
I'm going to play a bit of a contrarian here - particularly as you said no meter required - and recommend a Leica CL.
They're relatively cheap and tend to be reliable as long as you don't care about the meter. They're as small as you are going to get while sticking with a Leica system camera giving the greatest difference from your MF bodies. The rangefinder patch tends to hold up well - it'll be easier to focus than fixed lens rangefinders you could start with. Bodies go for $200-300. Throw a cheap 50 on it and you may be close to your $300 budget.
I'm going to play a bit of a contrarian here - particularly as you said no meter required - and recommend a Leica CL.
They're relatively cheap and tend to be reliable as long as you don't care about the meter. They're as small as you are going to get while sticking with a Leica system camera giving the greatest difference from your MF bodies. The rangefinder patch tends to hold up well - it'll be easier to focus than fixed lens rangefinders you could start with. Bodies go for $200-300. Throw a cheap 50 on it and you may be close to your $300 budget.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I'll wish you luck because I think you'll need it.
Your maximum cash means just one body and lens, not three, but it also means you'll need to be lucky to get a reliable one as reliability means a reliable make and a previous owner who has looked after the camera and lens. Bear in mind the probably age of the thing and you'll see why. But old and good condition push up the price.
There's also the battery problem to consider, meaning some cameras need mercury batteries and they don't exist legally but the substitutes are dear and don't last long.
Also given the starting point of the budget have you looked at the cost of development of the film and minor accessories like lens hoods etc? as rarity makes them expensive.
Add this to the previous comments and it's a bit of a downer: sorry about that.
Regards, David
I'll wish you luck because I think you'll need it.
Your maximum cash means just one body and lens, not three, but it also means you'll need to be lucky to get a reliable one as reliability means a reliable make and a previous owner who has looked after the camera and lens. Bear in mind the probably age of the thing and you'll see why. But old and good condition push up the price.
There's also the battery problem to consider, meaning some cameras need mercury batteries and they don't exist legally but the substitutes are dear and don't last long.
Also given the starting point of the budget have you looked at the cost of development of the film and minor accessories like lens hoods etc? as rarity makes them expensive.
Add this to the previous comments and it's a bit of a downer: sorry about that.
Regards, David
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
He wears eye-glass...
To OP:
Here are some model with usable multiple frame/frameline for eye-glass wearer:
Canon VI-L if you can find one with reasonable price.
Canon VL (also L1,L2,L3) if you don't mind no Albada-frameline.
Canon 7 if you don't mide the larger size.
Note that They are all quite heavy cameras made in Metal Age, around 600g and heavier, body only.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Roger Hicks
Veteran
But the AF is nothing like as reliable as a rangefinder, i.e. it doesn't always focus where you want. I had one for a year and don't miss it at all.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear David,
Well, yes, but I can't imagine he was expecting an outfit for that price. If he was, there's very little hope of finding a reliable camera that meets his requirements unless he can find a couple of REALLY CHEAP (probably Russian) lenses to supplement whatever comes with the Bessa.
Cheers,
R.
Mjd-djm
Established
I've owned several Leicas, M2, M3, M6, Bessa R (several), Canon 7 & P, as well as Contax G1. To be honest you can take great pictures with all of them. Given your budget I would get an original Bessa R which takes LTM lenses (Leica Thread Mount). LTM lenses tend to be cheaper and voigtlander make a good range of them as well as Leica and Canon and other. Just type LTM lens into fleabay. These are often overlooked but many are great quality... Voigtlander 50mm 1.5 Nokton (first version), colour Skopar 35mm f2.5 (first version) and Canon 50mm 1.4 LTM to name but a few.
kshapero
South Florida Man
I second that on a CV Bessa R2, although I bought the farm on R3A 10 years ago and never regretted it.
If you've never had a 35mm RF, try a fixed lens RF first. If you like the experience you could then move to interchangeable. This way you don't break the budget right away. There are quite a few superb options, and lots of threads here about them. They can be acquired in serviced condition, adjusted for modern batteries, with bright clear viewfinders with strong RF patches, for about $150 (or less if you're patient, or don't care about working meter.) Canon QL17 GIII is one example, nice ones have viewfinders every bit as good as much more expensive cameras, with parallax correction.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
Where did you lose it?
