Can you ID these cameras and lenses for me?

j.scooter

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Total LTM newbie here. I found these two cameras for sale locally but not sure what models they are and how much they are worth. Assuming they have been packed away in boxes for 12-15 years how much should I budget for getting them back into good working order?

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You might be a very lucky man, depending on the condition of the 395xxx camera.
That is a wartime IIIc, made between 1943 and 1946 according to Leica serial number lists.

Questions for that one:
  • does it have a 'K' on one of the shutter blinds?
  • does it have red shutter blinds?
  • what is the number of the Elmar 3.5/50mm you have with that? Or is it a 3.5/35mm?
  • is all vulcanite on the body tight, or loose bits? (be careful not to crack it or value could drop)

The wartime IIIc 'Stepper' is a camera with a little 'step' under the rewind lever and Leitz abandoned that in later IIIc's to simplify production. It is generally considered a specific feature of wartime IIIc's, the other models made during the war did not have it.

A red shutter blind is made from experimental blind cloth that Leitz abandoned as quickly as material scarcity was over, the red curtains 'bleed' the rubber that is between them and over time the blinds would show sticky black spots, Leitz would replace them when a camera was serviced. Few camera's had red blinds, even fewer had two red blinds and even fewer with red blinds remain.

A 'K' marked shutter is a 'Kugellager' shutter, meaning it had ball bearings and was built for cold weather service with the Navy and U-boat service and air force.

Collectors are extra interested in the red curtains and 'K' camera's, especially when they are in good condition and have provenance. Any chance you got a story to go with the camera when you bought it?

The other camera is a mere IIIa from 1937-1938 but it might have its original Summar 2.0/50mm attached and that would add some value. Provenance in this case is nice but unless spectacular isn't going to alter the price much.


Nice find!
 
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The IIIc appears to be an early post-war IIIc (1946-47), likely (partially) made up from wartime parts and delivered to the US Army of the Occupation. Might even be a "K" in disguise.

This one's slightly older then the one MISH posted up a few weeks ago.
 
I was going to say IIIa and IIIc without checking the serials. But you learn something new every day. I never would have guessed the IIIc was a wartime leica.
 
I was going to say IIIa and IIIc without checking the serials. But you learn something new every day. I never would have guessed the IIIc was a wartime leica.

Anytime it's something between serials 300xxx and 400xxx I get the little book with serial list out to check. Or when it's a IIIc 'Stepper' I instantly know. With lenses it's between serials 490xxx and 600xxx, Elmar 50, Elmar 90 and Hektor 135, or Summitar 50. A very limited number of Xenon 50's was made for military use as well. Zeiss Sonnars 50 and 85 and 135 and Biogons 35 between 268xxxx and 277xxxx and I get up too.

Pretty easy to remember...😎😀
 
OK, I think the pictures might be a little out of order, so I was getting confused. Am I right that 395xxx is in pictures 2 and 3, while 245xxx is shown in 1 and 4?

If so, then 395xxx appears to be a IIIc, while 245xxx looks like it's a IIIa (if it has a 1/1000 shutter speed; can't really tell from the picture; it's a III if the top speed is 1/500). The lens on 245xxx looks to be a 50/2 Summar. The lens on 395xxx looks to be either a 50/3.5 Elmar or 35/3.5 Summaron; very hard to tell from the picture.

Value -- hard to know. Maybe $200-$250 for the IIIa; $250-$300 for the IIIc? This assumes everything is working. Budget $200+ for servicing on each. As for the lenses, maybe like $300 or so for each, assuming the glass is in good shape (not a given by any means). Cleaning of the lenses would probably be in the $200 range for each of those.

Postscript -- looks like the others have given you far more complete info on the cameras -- as you can see, the IIIc could be worth a fair amount more than I thought.
 
Anytime it's something between serials 300xxx and 400xxx I get the little book with serial list out to check. Or when it's a IIIc 'Stepper' I instantly know. With lenses it's between serials 490xxx and 600xxx, Elmar 50, Elmar 90 and Hektor 135, or Summitar 50. A very limited number of Xenon 50's was made for military use as well. Zeiss Sonnars 50 and 85 and 135 and Biogons 35 between 268xxxx and 277xxxx and I get up too.

Pretty easy to remember...😎😀

I hope this works
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You're right. Photo 1 and 4 are the same camera, and 2 and 3 the other. I thought the photos were in sequence. That also explains the Summar on the older camera.
 
I'd say at $1100 for the two, they will be there a long time. That's more than the cost of splitting the lot into 2 bodies and 2 lenses and selling separately, which is the most profitable seller route. Typical newbie seller, wants to make that amount, but without the fuss of selling them separately, or on Ebay. Let the buyer take all the risk, they figure.
 
The IIIc actually might be nice for that kinda cash. If it's 100% functional and clean. Especially if it has a 'K' shutter or red shutter, and the original or a same-era lens.

The IIIa is too expensive. CND 350 would be better, again for a fully working camera and clean Summar.
 
When you buy a lot/kit, you don't add up the maximum value of each part of the kit and add up the total. The assumption is you give a better price because someone is willing to buy a load of stuff all at once. If they didn't want to part it out, I'd pay $300 for both cameras, 600 bucks, and no more. Trust me, after you discover both lenses are fogged, one shutter has pinholes, and the other winding mechanism is broken, needing $400 to get both running, you'll still be in the hole.
 
I agree with Garrett. Three years ago I bought a IIIc stepper off e bay in clean but nonworking condition. By the time I paid to get it working I had more money in it than I could get out of it but I'm happy and it's what I wanted.

I have friends who restore old cars and they tell me it's cheaper to buy the car you want than having one restored. That IIIc needs to be examined to see if it is special or common. Joe
 
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