Cannot Find a Good Copy of the Canon 50mm F1.2 LTM - Giving Up!

[NathanArizona]

I went over a month and a half searching for a mint condition copy of this lens because of the way in rendered but every copy I received either had scratches on the outer surface of the elements and two had glue/separation issues on 2/3 copies that I tried and tested and returned. In each case, the eBay sellers had 100% feedback and stated that the glass was in mint condition. Even on the third round, the seller told me the lens was in "like new" condition without anything wrong with the glass!

Is it just me or has the quality that sellers have been promoting going steadily downhill in recent months/years? I've almost given up looking for used lenses on eBay and I feel it is fruitless and a waste of time looking for an excellent copy pf the Canon 50mm F1.2 LTM - which I wanted so badly. I love the way it renders but couldn't get and find what I was trying to locate... :/

Nate

 

[Beemermark]

IMHO some buyers have rather unrealistic expectation of lenses that are more than 60 years old. Chances are the lens were LN, or in other words they were in no better condition when they left the factory.

Buy new.

 

[NathanArizona]

IMHO some buyers have rather unrealistic expectation of lenses that are more than 60 years old. Chances are the lens were LN, or in other words they were in no better condition when they left the factory.

Buy new.

I've been buying vintage lenses on eBay for 15 years now and have (for the most part) had excellent buying experiences with good quality glass that was as described. I purchased Konica Hexanon, Rokkors, Russian Zenit and Rangefinder lenses, the Pentacons, Carl Zeiss, and many many others with no issues until this past year. I would have lived with the scratching, but the lens separation and glue issues really hurt the quality of the glass for night shooting with bokeh and specular light sources.

I heard the LTM lenses from Canon's old rangefinder line were notorious for balsam separation and these glue issues, even reading that on these forums which I am new to BTW, but I was okay with taking the lens apart to clean up haze but the glue issues are just hard to overlook! :/

Nate

 

[Chubberino]

I mean a month and a half is nothing really.

 

[NathanArizona]

This is what shows up in the bokeh which is visible separation that is sometimes hard to see when looking through the lens but is painfully obvious in images.

 

[NathanArizona]

A few more examples of what I'm talking about:

 

[tunalegs]

I went over a month and a half searching for a mint condition copy of this lens because of the way in rendered but every copy I received either had scratches on the outer surface of the elements and two had glue/separation issues on 2/3 copies that I tried and tested and returned. In each case, the eBay sellers had 100% feedback and stated that the glass was in mint condition. Even on the third round, the seller told me the lens was in "like new" condition without anything wrong with the glass!

Is it just me or has the quality that sellers have been promoting going steadily downhill in recent months/years? I've almost given up looking for used lenses on eBay and I feel it is fruitless and a waste of time looking for an excellent copy pf the Canon 50mm F1.2 LTM - which I wanted so badly. I love the way it renders but couldn't get and find what I was trying to locate... :/

Nate

Here's a question: Do you want to use the lens, or collect it?

I would never use a mint lens. Once you start using it, it is no longer mint. "Like new" is a weasel term, but again, once you start using it, it's not "like new" anymore. If you want the lens to use, then deal with the fact that all the used lenses have been used - that's why they're in used condition.

Canon lenses of that era are notorious for element separation, and there are quite a few old lenses that have very soft glass - to the point where finding one without cleaning marks is practically impossible. If you want to use the lens, you settle for this, it's not going to ruin your photos.

I've been looking off and on for Schacht Travegon for a few years now. I very stupidly sold the first one I had because it wasn't perfect. I've not found another that was in as good of condition. Oops. And it's been several years.

 

[NathanArizona]

Here's a question: Do you want to use the lens, or collect it?

I would never use a mint lens. Once you start using it, it is no longer mint. "Like new" is a weasel term, but again, once you start using it, it's not "like new" anymore. If you want the lens to use, then deal with the fact that all the used lenses have been used - that's why they're in used condition.

Canon lenses of that era are notorious for element separation, and there are quite a few old lenses that have very soft glass - to the point where finding one without cleaning marks is practically impossible. If you want to use the lens, you settle for this, it's not going to ruin your photos.

I've been looking off an on for Schacht Travegon for a few years now. I very stupidly sold the first one I had because it wasn't perfect. I've not found another that was in as good of condition. Oops.

I have several vintage lenses that I use, some of which I have shot for years where the glass is vintage but clean with no separation, major flaws that ruin the bokeh. I'm talking the Tomioka 55mm F1.2, Porst 55mm F1.2 and lenses like the Pentacon 135mm F2.8, Jupiter-9, Jupiter 37A, old industar lenses. This only seems to be a repeat issue with the Canon? I'm okay with using mint lenses, but is the separation issue so common with the Canon 50mm F1.2 LTM that it is "impossible" to find one without the separation? I've come to the realization that I can live with the micro scratches and cleaning marks, even haze (which can be cleaned) but the separation is unnerving which is why I probably need to totally give up on this lens and go settle on something like a more recent Minolta Rokkor 58mm F1.2 lens!?

I simply loved the way the Canon rendered the bokeh... It's a shame this has to become an issue for night shooting. It's why I got the lens for street shots and narrow DOF at twilight and late after dark...

 

[tunalegs]

I see a few on ebay right now with no apparent separation. Also check the classifieds section of this forum, one was sold not that long ago, and they're hardly rare lenses, so I'm sure another will appear.

 

[NathanArizona]

I see a few on ebay right now with no apparent separation. Also check the classifieds section of this forum, one was sold not that long ago, and they're hardly rare lenses, so I'm sure another will appear.

I'm wondering how the F1.4 version compares regarding the issues with the F1.2 glass?

 

[nhchen]

I thought the main problem with this lens was haze that has etched on of the middle elements.
Nathan

 

[newfilm]

I went over a month and a half searching for a mint condition copy of this lens because of the way in rendered but every copy I received either had scratches on the outer surface of the elements and two had glue/separation issues on 2/3 copies that I tried and tested and returned. In each case, the eBay sellers had 100% feedback and stated that the glass was in mint condition. Even on the third round, the seller told me the lens was in "like new" condition without anything wrong with the glass!

Is it just me or has the quality that sellers have been promoting going steadily downhill in recent months/years? I've almost given up looking for used lenses on eBay and I feel it is fruitless and a waste of time looking for an excellent copy pf the Canon 50mm F1.2 LTM - which I wanted so badly. I love the way it renders but couldn't get and find what I was trying to locate... :/

Nate

You can send it for professional recementing and polishing, will cost money, but if that's what you want this may be a sure way to get a working copy.

 

[radi(c)al_cam]

IDK what said lens costs where you live (Arizona?), but

a) I'd recommend to purchase generally all (except the really really inexpensive) items from a renowned brick-and-mortar-shop, per mail, or better: in person.

b) I always had the best experiences with Japanese sellers, they're particularly careful regarding the packing when mailing abroad. Reason: they know that postal services of other countries often aren't as wary as the Nippon Yū-sei Kabushiki-gaisha, formerly Imperial Japanese Post.

I'm not sure whether or not raw handling during the shipping can cause the aformentioned problems, but I've learned, U.S. postal services are not the most careful …

 

[David Murphy]

The going rate for a decent Canon 50/1.2 LTM starts at about $400 with the really nice ones selling for $500-600 or so. Occasionally they can be found for less than $400, but most of these have issues. It's a very fine lens IMO.

 

[Peter Jennings]

Have you ever tried Yahoo Japan Auctions? Some items are more common there than on eBay. But also, some sellers in Japan sell on both sites.

This one looks rather clean https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/c594032672

 

[sepiareverb]

Bellamy can almost certainly find you one if your willing to pay his fee.

 

[newfilm]

Bellamy can almost certainly find you one if your willing to pay his fee.

I wonder how is Bellamy return policy? I stick with *bay because the return is almost no hassle for me (minus the return shipping fees, and the hassle to get custom to return my taxed money since I'm returning, unless you guys don't pay custom tax), all the other auction site charge some premium especially those that provide middle-man service like the japan auction, and is impossible to do any return.

My experience with japan auction site is that even the picture look ok, but balsam issue or fungus is very difficult to spot from the picture, and often not it will be masquerade as slight fog or something (I suspect due to the country humidity and what not influence a lot of the condition of the old lenses).

Since we know that a particular lens has higher degree of said issue, I would advice against gambling another round with your money, the return shipping you paid multiple time has probably certainly enough to get what you have in your hand fixed professionally.

(yes, I'm a recovering GASholic 🙂

 

[rbiemer]

How about here?:
http://www.kevincameras.com/

Rob

 

[ruby.monkey]

How about here?:
http://www.kevincameras.com/

Rob

You'll most likely pay through the nose, but you'll get a good copy. Having said that, it seems that the 50mm f/1.2 will need regular disassembly and cleaning of internal haze, no matter what.

 

[rbiemer]

You'll most likely pay through the nose, but you'll get a good copy. Having said that, it seems that the 50mm f/1.2 will need regular disassembly and cleaning of internal haze, no matter what.

I think that once some one starts chasing that last bit of perfect condition, the price increases get to be larger and larger for very small increments of better condition.
For me, I'm content with "good enough". If the imperfections don't affect the results I am trying to get, I don't get too worried.
That said, balsam separation would, for me, trump most other issues.

Rob