Canon II-F curtain replacement

[Djedi]

Hello All!
I have been looking for a while, but this is my first request for assistance.
I have searched through this forum, but cannot get a clear picture of how to proceed.
My recently purchased Canon II-F (EP) is now disassembled to where the leather covered housing is removed and I have access to the curtains. So far so good. My closing curtain looks like swiss cheese however and needs replacing. An unskilled attempt was made at coating it with some kind of rubber which has turned sticky and was wrapped semi-permanently around the roller. I managed to unroll it and have slipped a bit of wax paper over it to keep that from happening again. But I have no idea how to remove the curtain completely (would rather not disassemble the entire set of rollers for fear of not being able to get them back together properly). I read it should be possible to do so, but can't get past the next step. I look at Leica 3F manuals but they do not look like the Canon, which has a different bottom once the film diagram-imprinted cap is removed. I saw the 2010 post on Canon IIF CLA but it does not give a clear key to curtain replacement.
Does anyone have some pdf's or advice on how I can get that second curtain replaced? I would appreciate any help you can give.
Wolfgang

 

[Peter Jennings]

If you're replacing only the curtain and not the ribbons, then it is quite easy - tedious, but easy. Basically, you must remove the old curtain intact, measure its length, cut new curtain to same length, and attach new curtain. Now, of course there are finer details that you must be aware of, so read as much as you can before diving in. Check Rick Oleson's site. He has lots of helpful information.

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/

 

[Peter Jennings]

Here's a PDF on Rick's site that helped me a lot.

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/leicashutter.pdf

 

[Djedi]

Thanks guys, but I was looking for something more specific. A lot of instructions mention putting a splint in some gear to keep the roller in place, but on the II-F I don't see the gears they mention, and I can't find a way to get to them without winding up with a handfull of rollers, gears, springs, etc. Looking for more specific info on the II-F.
Wolfgang

 

[Peter Jennings]

You'll likely not find anything very specific to that model, but that shouldn't be a problem. The basic mechanics of all the early Canons (and most Barnack clones) are highly similar. Later models slowly get more complex. As to the gear you're looking for, look at the base of the curtain rollers. That is where all the gearing usually is. And aside from removing the outer shell, any further disassembly shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Djedi]

Further disassembly

Further disassembly

Peter, thanks for your answer.
Yes, that is what I was led to believe before I started the project. Believe me, I downloaded all info on screw mount Leica curtain replacement as well as what was available on Russian copies. There seems to be very little on the web about Canon's models. It actually surprises me after disassembling the camera to this degree, that the Canons are not more revered by collectors!
I guess to some degree it is the "Leica" brand that makes them so much more "collectible", but I find this camera in particular to be of excellent build quality and the Serenar lens of great image quality.
Anyway, I have done some continued research and will revisit my dismantled camera tonight or this weekend, to see if I can get any farther down the road with it. I have also emailed a camera repair person in Mass. to see if he might be interested in completing the project at not too high a cost. I feel stupid for not immediately returning the camera to the seller, but I waited too long to test it properly after the sale and once I got the secondary curtain freed, I thought the issues were solved. I didn't realize the "rubber paint" was still soft and will never dry. The curtain, once removed, could still be used for straining spaghetti I guess, but certainly not for keeping out light.:bang:
Wolfgang

 

[Peter Jennings]

You've gotten this far. You can do it! Use alcohol to soften the glue holding the curtain to the drum and gently peel it from the drum. Mark the attachment point of the curtain to the drum using a straight edge and a utility knife. This will help you get the new curtain lined up square when you attach it. Once the curtain is off the drum, soften up the glue holding the curtain to the bar with the ribbons. Carefully cut the threads stitching the curtain to the bar. Once the curtain is off, flatten it out on a piece of cardboard or heavy paper and tape it down. Now measure the length and width of the curtain and cut your new curtain to these dimensions. Clean all the glue residue from the drum and bar. Using Pliobond, attach the new curtain to the drum carefully lining it up with the marked line. Apply glue to end of curtain and fold over the bar making sure the fold width is identical to the old curtain. New stitches aren't necessary. The glue will hold fine by itself.
Let me know if you have any questions about specific points. Of course, if anything goes wrong I won't be held responsible😀

 

[Greginpa]

I'm in the same boat. I hope you don't mind if I piggy back on your thread. Also a new member. I'm in the middle of a curtain replacement on a Canon IIIa. Be very careful with the tiny soft metal center screw on the tension gear. It will break very easily if you use the wrong screw driver or try and turn it when the gear is snugged up too tight. I've got mine to the point where it seems to be almost functioning properly. I did as Peter suggests btw. A problem I can't figure out. If I set the shutter speed to 1000 and fire it then set to B and wind and fire it does 1000 again. Wind and repeat and I get B? Ideas?

 

[Peter Jennings]

A problem I can't figure out. If I set the shutter speed to 1000 and fire it then set to B and wind and fire it does 1000 again. Wind and repeat and I get B? Ideas?

Do all of your slow speeds operate correctly, even T? There could be an issue with the slow speed actuating lever. With the top plate off, watch what happens when you switch between B and 1000. I'm not sure, but there might be a misalignment from when you reassembled the camera after replacing the curtain. Also check to make sure the spring holding down the slow speed actuating lever is properly tensioned.

 

[Greginpa]

Thanks Peter, I haven't reinstalled the slow speed mechanism, the actuating lever is held off to the side out of the way. The speeds (controlled with the top dial) all seem to be operating ok. I haven't precisely checked them, but they are very close. Just that odd quirk where if you set it to B after 1000 it doesn't work until the second cycle?

 

[Peter Jennings]

I could be mistaken about how B interacts with the slow speed mechanism. I thought that they were interrelated, but thinking again - perhaps they're not. You might try checking the leaf springs on the bottom next to the tensioning screws. Sometimes if they're not aligned just perfectly, strange things can happen.

 

[Greginpa]

Thanks Peter, I'll look at that. I'm not the first person inside this camera, I've had to contend with a couple problems left behind-the slow speed dial was hacked to death underneath the knob to the point I couldn't free it. What should have been an easy removal turned into a blood bath with a Dremel. I have a request into DAG Parts for a new slow speed dial mechanism, hopefully they'll have one. I noticed a little looseness in the top plate attachment which might be causing the weirdness. Going to spend some time on it today. This has been an interesting experience, from finding the camera on craigslist for $5.00! through learning how the mechanism works.

 

[Greginpa]

I was able to reassemble my Canon IIIA successfully, my odd intermittent problem went away after snugging up the screws for the flat springs and the chassis. I ran a roll of BW through it. The speeds seem to be right on the money up to 1K which is slow as would be expected. Maybe a half stop? I don't know maybe someone can get it to fire at 1K but I don't want to screw up the other speeds which are spot on. I'm still looking for a slow speed dial mechanism.
I encourage to OP to stick with it. It can be done.