Canon P newbie questions

[kumotaki]

Hi,

As you'll soon notice (or already know), I'm quite new to rangefinders, and my questions will probably seem basic to most of you, but I swear I did my homework before posting here.

That being said, spending a lazy Sunday browsing Tokyo's camera shops for a body that could accomodate my beloved FSU lenses, I got myself a gorgeous-looking and cosmetically flawless Canon P. The curtain doesn't even show the tiniest crinkle. And I snatched it for the equivalent of 120US$ while having my limit set to 300$ for anything that would fit the bill. So all in all, great Sunday if you ask me.

But a Canon rangefinder specialist i am not...

(Edit: question answered) 1) While everything seems rosy, I noted that starting from 1/30th and slower, a very faint but strange noise can be heard. I imagine that this is the slow speed "whatever spring action" (is that what you call "escapment"?), but specifically at 1/30th it sounds less like a spring unwinding and more like a tiny screw falling on a metallic tray. I am deeply sorry for the lack of a better description, but question 1, is that normal? Note that in terms of shutter speed and curtain action, no problem is apparent, but that faint "ding" noise is here nonetheless.

(Edit: question answered) 2) I am (or rather was until today...😉) an Nikon SLR guy. That Leica thread mount is still more or less novelty to me. The only reason why I was looking for another LTM body was because while my trusty Zorki is being serviced, my cheap and scratched FSU lenses are used for this arty / low-contrast / 70's dreamy rendition of urban landscapes I am all about when shooting Tokyo. But -oh my, oh my!- that Canon P is some fine piece of equipment that deserves proper unscratched lenses. What do you recommend in 35mm wide that is not crazily expensive?

(Edit: question answered) 3) By the way, everybody's talking about those Voigtlander lenses, but do they still exist in thread mount? I can't seem to find them, be it new or used... What are they specifically called so I can do a proper web search while excluding the M mount ones?

(Edit: question answered) 4) What's with that Jupiter-12 and Canon P compatibility? I own a black Jupiter-12, but many websites advise against trying to mount the lens while Google and Flickr show seemingly functional sets.

(Edit: That was quick! Thank you all!)

Okay, too long post already... I should stop here for now... If anyone could at least give some help regarding question 1, this would be great!

 

[Jonathan]

Congrats on Canon P.
I now buy them whenever I see them assuming they are good price.
No worries re slower speed sound, as I understand it, a different set of gears are used which explains the difference.
Easy to load and a joy to use, what is not to like!
If you are patient lenses always turn up.
Regards

 

[02Pilot]

It's difficult to say what's happening with the slow speeds, but the obvious first question is: are the speeds accurate? If they are, it could just be lack of lubrication; if not, something may be adrift. Very difficult to say definitively without disassembly, however.

I use a Jupiter-12 on my P without problems (mine is an earlier silver-bodied model). My understanding is that some of the J-12s have a shroud around the exposed rear element that can interfere with the light baffles on the P; mine does not have this. In any case, I would open the back, lock the shutter open on B, and observe the clearance between the rear of the lens and the upper part of the light baffle in the body as you screw it on.

Can't speak to the other questions, as I have no experience with CV or other 35mm LTM lenses.

 

[kumotaki]

It's difficult to say what's happening with the slow speeds, but the obvious first question is: are the speeds accurate? If they are, it could just be lack of lubrication; if not, something may be adrift. Very difficult to say definitively without disassembly, however.

I use a Jupiter-12 on my P without problems (mine is an earlier silver-bodied model). My understanding is that some of the J-12s have a shroud around the exposed rear element that can interfere with the light baffles on the P; mine does not have this. In any case, I would open the back, lock the shutter open on B, and observe the clearance between the rear of the lens and the upper part of the light baffle in the body as you screw it on.

Well, slow speeds "sound" accurate for now. Currently shooting a test roll to check. Let's simplify my question. Do you Canon P owners hear something at 1/30th and slower that is not there at faster speeds?

Because I am shooting a test roll right now, I can't test for Jupiter-12 compatibility, but I'll do as you say. Thanks!

 

[kumotaki]

Okay, question 1 is answered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhqLTUm3ee8
I have found this video on Youtube of some guy demonstrating the shutter speed of his Canon P and the same sound can be heard at 1/15th and 1/30th just after the shutters closes (it's between 0:30'' and 0:40'' in the video). Not really like a "small screw falling in a metal tray" as I said before, but definitely the same sound. My Canon P is alright then.

 

[jonmanjiro]

3) By the way, everybody's talking about those Voigtlander lenses, but do they still exist in thread mount? I can't seem to find them, be it new or used... What are they specifically called so I can do a proper web search while excluding the M mount ones?

http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtlen.htm

There you go, question 3 answered. Just search for the screw mount lenses at the above link. The screw mount Voigtlander lenses are discontinued, but used samples pop up from time to time at MAP Camera and Fujiya Camera, and the other usual suspects in Tokyo. Gotta be quick to grab them though, as they are popular and sell fast.

As for a 35mm wide... Color Slopar 35mm F2.5 Classic (available in black or silver). If you don't need the speed, its an excellent lens. Question 2 answered as well.

 

[Mackinaw]

......My Canon P is alright then.

Yep, just the slow-speed gear train doing it's thing.

Jim B.

 

[kumotaki]

http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtlen.htm

There you go, question 3 answered. Just search for the screw mount lenses at the above link. The screw mount Voigtlander lenses are discontinued, but used samples pop up from time to time at MAP Camera and Fujiya Camera, and the other usual suspects in Tokyo. Gotta be quick to grab them though, as they are popular and sell fast.

As for a 35mm wide... Color Slopar 35mm F2.5 Classic (available in black or silver). If you don't need the speed, its an excellent lens. Question 2 answered as well.

Double hit! Thanks!

Regarding that Color Skopar, I nearly never shoot wide open, so I definitely don't need the speed. This looks great. But let me summarize. Voigtlander made a screw mount Color Skopar "Classic" now discontinued. They make now a similar Color Skopar, in bayonet-mount only. What the...? Weren't those screw mount lenses supposed to fit M mount Leica with a simple adapter and please LTM and M-mount users altogether? Or am I missing something?

 

[rscheffler]

Yes, the screw mount lenses fit on M with an adapter. I can only guess that the market is better for M mount than LTM and having to adapt. While you can buy cheap LTM-M adapters, the Voigtlander branded ones add ~$70 to the price of a lens, which if it's a relatively inexpensive one like the 35/2.5, adds considerably to its price.

Don't overlook used Canon LTM lenses. I would imagine being in Japan, you'll have a pretty good selection available. I recently purchased the 35/2 and am quite surprised how decent it is. Very sharp centrally wide open and quickly improves to tack sharp across the frame between f/5.6-8. It's weakness is 1m minimum focusing distance and greater propensity to flare than modern lenses, but also adds somewhat to the charm of its character. Prices seem to be all over the map. I saw an imperfect copy on a recent ebay listing sell for around $200, while a recent B&S for a clean one on another forum was around $400 and many of the usual *bay suspects offer them for $600+ in the hopes of snagging someone desperate and impatient. Canon made a few versions at 35mm and I would guess the slower ones should sell for less... http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/lens/s/19-35.html

 

[kumotaki]

Don't overlook used Canon LTM lenses.

Yes, that's probably the way to go. But not on the Bay! Price are crazy compared to what can be found around Tokyo in old and tiny shops. I don't mind some "cleaning marks" if I can spot a 35mm wide for max. 200$, as long as the innards are fine.

For tack sharp and contrasty photo, I already have a Nikkor Ai-S 28/f2.8 on my FE. I joined the screw-mount rangefinder crowd for those "images with character". And sometimes, a tiny scratch or two liven things up as long as you're not paying an arm to give it a try.

 

[rogue_designer]

Keep an eye out for the Canon 35mm LTM lenses. The f2 and 1.8 get a bit spendier, but the 2.8 and 3.2 are underated gems, and as you said, you don't need the speed.

 

[kumotaki]

Keep an eye out for the Canon 35mm LTM lenses. The f2 and 1.8 get a bit spendier, but the 2.8 and 3.2 are underated gems, and as you said, you don't need the speed.

Yes I will. I just tried mounting the Jupiter-12 and it doesn't readily fit. I'm not risking it.
"Underrated", what a sweet word. Yes, I couldn't care less about the speed.

So...next goal is set.

edit: looking around on various Japanese shops' websites, I noticed that a lot of those Canon LTM lenses (the most "modern-looking" or "SLR-looking" ones) have DOF markings in feet. Metric system has always been the norm in Japan. How come? And do these lenses come in metric markings as well? Not that it really matters, but I'm not used to Imperial units...

 

[rogue_designer]

I guess I never really noticed, but just checked my 35/3.2 (very old style) - it is in feet (as is my 35/1.8 Canon LTM modern style). How odd.

 

[kumotaki]

Well, Canon LTM 35/f2.8 are indeed plentiful in Tokyo in either old (full chrome; tapered barrel) and modern style (chrome with black plastic focusing ring; straight barrel), with a bit more of the old ones showing. I don't know if there's a difference in optical quality between the two models.

Average price is between 150$ and 250$. I saw about 10 coming home from work tonight and stopping at 5 camera shops along the way. If this is a sample of anything (maybe it's not...) that's about 2 per shop.

Got a modern one for me at the lowest of the price range. I'll obviously shoot a test roll tomorrow. Here come the issues for now:

-Flashlight test shows no scratches at all and the tiniest amount of haze, but I don't think this could ever impact picture quality.

-More obvious is a thin coating of oil on the whole surface of the aperture blades. This is most probably not a good thing in the long run. Stopping down from f16 to f22 is a tad harder. Oil-related issue I guess.

-Finally, paint is missing in a black ring inside the lens. That is really weird! How could paint disappear in there? I hope this will not cause flare. Photo attached to show the problem.

So, to you all who know more than me. Was I fleeced? If you think so, "yes" is a perfectly acceptable answer.

Unrelated but impressive, attached photo was taken with a Canon G10 in macro-mode. Wow... That is some heavy barrel distortion!!!

 

[kumotaki]

So, to you all who know more than me. Was I fleeced? If you think so, "yes" is a perfectly acceptable answer.

Well, I just got an answer from a repair shop in Tokyo that is used to work on LTM (any brand) lenses. They'll service mine for a really fair price. So, price of the lens + CLA is still less than a mint looking one. Pretty happy.

I still can't believe that you can get a mint Canon P + serviced 35mm lens for about 300$ in Tokyo.