Capa

peterm1 said:
The world loves a charming cad - a bum if you like, especially from a distance. And Capa was a charmer. But here's the thing, most people who knew him seemed to like the guy too. So he really can't have been all bad. And of course he did his job, repeatedly putting himself in harm's way to get the photos. And that is something they can't take away from him though some may try.
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Boyington himself reveled in his hero status, despite also claiming to be a bum in his book. Reading Gamble's Biography on Boyington it became clear how much of a bum he really was.
Nobody denied he was a daring fighterpilot though.😉
 
Erik van Straten said:
Capa's photographs were artistically mediocre, but not Cartier-Bresson's. Cartier-Bresson's pictures are masterpieces of artistic photography.

Erik.
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Capa’s photos might have been artistically mediocre, but he was a photojournalist not an artist. He documented quickly for money and fame.

HCB has some masterpieces. For example the first half of his book The Decisive Moment is mostly excellent, and can be considered a masterpiece when viewed in the historical context. The second half however is a real disappointment for me and far from a masterpiece of artistic photography, and taken without historic context falls very flat. It’s almost as if two different photographers contributed to the book. I would say that everything in the second half of the book (except a few historical photos like Gandhi’s funeral) has been done better since. After all, for a photo to stand outside of historical context it must be better than every other example of that photo.
 
Erik van Straten said:
Capa's photographs were artistically mediocre, but not Cartier-Bresson's. Cartier-Bresson's pictures are masterpieces of artistic photography.
Click to expand...
Apples versus oranges. Many people think different about the "artistic" quality of Capa's photos.
Such bordeline sentences don't bring anything to the debate about how the Robert Capa myth was built over the years and decades.
 
Highway 61 said:
Apples versus oranges. Many people think different about the "artistic" quality of Capa's photos.
Such bordeline sentences don't bring anything to the debate about how the Robert Capa myth was built over the years and decades.
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I like to leave opinions about art from other people to themselves.
I am not tempted to define the term "art", but if you compare Capa's photographs with those of Cartier-Bresson, you will understand what I mean.
Because of the non-artistic quality of Capa's photographs, I am not inclined to investigate how the Robert Capa myth was built over the years and decades. I have better things to do. I spent my entire salary (and those of others) on the horses to pay my secretaries!

Erik.
 
michaelwj said:
HCB has some masterpieces. For example the first half of his book The Decisive Moment is mostly excellent, and can be considered a masterpiece when viewed in the historical context. The second half however is a real disappointment for me and far from a masterpiece of artistic photography, and taken without historic context falls very flat. It’s almost as if two different photographers contributed to the book. I would say that everything in the second half of the book (except a few historical photos like Gandhi’s funeral) has been done better since. After all, for a photo to stand outside of historical context it must be better than every other example of that photo.
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I agree that the choice of photos for Cartier-Bresson's books should have been left to me.

Erik.
 
Capa was "slightly out of focus" about himself and his own unhappy life. So he didn't refrain those people from building up those true-lies about him. Then he quickly died, probably as expected by him.

His life and his photo work became a marketing matter altogether in the 1980s when he got re-discovered by the public. Still today there are several new books being published every year in several countries about him, about Gerda Taro, about "The Mexican suitcase" etc. One of them got the Strega Prize in Italy last year, one was published last week. And there were all the recent major exhibitions too, including one about his very nice colour work.

In the meantime, Coleman's team researches tell the whole truth about the several clues behind the D-Day pictures and how they got marketed to the marketers' own profit, more than probably. But Coleman's goal is certainly not to bash Capa himself.
 
Oh Please!

Oh Please!

I find it risible to judge the artistic aesthetics of Cappa's D-Day photographs. Comparing them to photographs made under pleasant and relaxed circumstances is naive and superficial.

  • Cappa was in the first assault on Omaha Beach.
  • The troops (and Cappa) had just completed a 17 hour crossing in rough seas. They were physically stressed well before people began to do their very best to kill them.
  • At the time of the initial landing the waves were 5-6 feet and the wind was at their back. All the landing craft were difficult to control and many were swamped. When these photographs were made people were struggling and drowning nearby.
  • By the way, at the same time Nazi defenders were firing 75 and105 mm cannons and a variety of anti-tank guns at the landing craft. These weapons were manned by veteran troops (352nd Infantry Division) .
  • "I was the first one out. The seventh man was the next one to get across the beach without being hit. All the ones in-between were hit. Two were killed; three were injured. That's how lucky you had to be." Captain Richard Merrill, 2nd Ranger Battalion.
  • The US 1st and 29th infantry divisions suffered ~ 2,000 casualties during the Omaha beach assault.
  • Is it likely Cappa made these photographs while realizing he could be drowned or blown to bits at any time?

Yet, despite these circumstance it is valid to criticize Cappa for a deficit of aesthetics? Evaluating them as if they were in a juried exhibition is a staggering disregard of context. These are simply beyond my comprehension.

I wish HCB had been on the same landing craft with Cappa. Then we'd have some proper photographs. Or, maybe Winogrand would have delivered images with an interesting balance between form and content. No. Any sane person who be terrified. Aesthetics would be very low priority.

Separately, whatever Cappa's personal failings might be or how his story may have been amplified or glorified, are irrelevant. Cappa made those photographs under circumstances very few (if any) of us can fully appreciate. Nothing about his life before or afterwards is detracts from what he accomplished during that morning in France.
 
willie_901 said:
I find it risible to judge the artistic aesthetics of Cappa's D-Day photographs. Comparing them to photographs made under pleasant and relaxed circumstances is naive and superficial.
  • Cappa was in the first assault on Omaha Beach.
  • The troops (and Cappa) had just completed a 17 hour crossing in rough seas. They were physically stressed well before people began to do their very best to kill them.
  • At the time of the initial landing the waves were 5-6 feet and the wind was at their back. All the landing craft were difficult to control and many were swamped. When these photographs were made people were struggling and drowning nearby.
  • By the way, at the same time Nazi defenders were firing 75 and105 mm cannons and a variety of anti-tank guns at the landing craft. These weapons were manned by veteran troops (352nd Infantry Division) .
  • "I was the first one out. The seventh man was the next one to get across the beach without being hit. All the ones in-between were hit. Two were killed; three were injured. That's how lucky you had to be." Captain Richard Merrill, 2nd Ranger Battalion.
  • The US 1st and 29th infantry divisions suffered ~ 2,000 casualties during the Omaha beach assault.
  • Is it likely Cappa made these photographs while realizing he could be drowned or blown to bits at any time?
Yet, despite these circumstance it is valid to criticize Cappa for a deficit of aesthetics? Evaluating them as if they were in a juried exhibition is a staggering disregard of context. These are simply beyond my comprehension.

I wish HCB had been on the same landing craft with Cappa. Then we'd have some proper photographs. Or, maybe Winogrand would have delivered images with an interesting balance between form and content. No. Any sane person who be terrified. Aesthetics would be very low priority.

Separately, whatever Cappa's personal failings might be or how his story may have been amplified or glorified, are irrelevant. Cappa made those photographs under circumstances very few (if any) of us can fully appreciate. Nothing about his life before or afterwards is detracts from what he accomplished during that morning in France.
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You're right (I don't know about the details like 1st or 4th assault, or if the crossing really took that long, or how high the waves were, we don't see much surf ,but it doesn't matter), except that no-one did this: "Evaluating them as if they were in a juried exhibition". I think everyone agrees, others were basically saying in other words that these aren't fine-art photographs.

But personally I agree with someone who posted earlier that whatever happened to the negatives actually gives them a special visual and emotional power. I think part of it is that without clearly recognizable facial features, the viewer can more easily see a loved one or even themselves in the men who went into that hell.
 
willie_901 said:
I find it risible to judge the artistic aesthetics of Cappa's D-Day photographs. Comparing them to photographs made under pleasant and relaxed circumstances is naive and superficial.

Is it likely Cappa made these photographs while realizing he could be drowned or blown to bits at any time?

Yet, despite these circumstance it is valid to criticize Cappa for a deficit of aesthetics? Evaluating them as if they were in a juried exhibition is a staggering disregard of context. These are simply beyond my comprehension.

I wish HCB had been on the same landing craft with Cappa. Then we'd have some proper photographs. Or, maybe Winogrand would have delivered images with an interesting balance between form and content. No. Any sane person who be terrified. Aesthetics would be very low priority.

Separately, whatever Cappa's personal failings might be or how his story may have been amplified or glorified, are irrelevant. Cappa made those photographs under circumstances very few (if any) of us can fully appreciate. Nothing about his life before or afterwards is detracts from what he accomplished during that morning in France.
Click to expand...

HOORAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
willie_901 said:
I find it risible to judge the artistic aesthetics of Cappa's D-Day photographs. Comparing them to photographs made under pleasant and relaxed circumstances is naive and superficial.
  • Cappa was in the first assault on Omaha Beach.
<skip>

Separately, whatever Cappa's personal failings might be or how his story may have been amplified or glorified, are irrelevant. Cappa made those photographs under circumstances very few (if any) of us can fully appreciate. Nothing about his life before or afterwards is detracts from what he accomplished during that morning in France.
Click to expand...

Capa spells with a lone p. 😉

It now too belongs to the legend and the myth that his girl-friend Gerta Pohorylle named herself "Gerda Taro" to make her newspapers name sounds like Greta Garbo's and that she named her boy-friend "Robert Capa" to make his own sound like Frank Capra's.

But here, this is probably all true.

About Omaha Beach : Coleman says that Capa landed on Omaha Beach with the fourteenth assault wave. That he quickly took eleven photos then went back to London where he arrived on June 7th. That he went back to the beaches of Normandy on June 9th.

Whichever assault wave he was with on the morning of June 6th, he bravely went there, no doubt.

Coleman's work is not at all about despising Capa's photos nor courage. Please re-read what he writes.

He just did an honest historian job so that we can judge on facts, not on the hype John G. Morris, Cornell Capa, Cynthia Young and Richard Whelan all made about it and especially with that melting emulsion hoax.

At the end of that day which is not the D-Day for sure, I agree that some posts in this thread telling about the "artistic" value of Capa's work are totally OT. If there was a kind of "Godwin Point" eq. contest out there for some people always jumping off their horses and shouting "Cartier-Bresson is the best ! Cartier-Bresson is the best !" when the discussion is and by far *not* about him, some here would have won it with all flags down, bells and whistles.
 
Pioneer said:
You and I must have read a different article. Perhaps you could link yours.
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Perharps you could re-read what Coleman writes and get that whom he's after are a group of people who spreaded what he considers to be some fakery.

Capa did it too for sure. I own an item of the first publishing of "Slightly out of focus" and agree with Coleman that Capa was prone to tell fancies and this can also be listened to from the lone audio recording of his voice in a radio broadcast :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYe4ynXnqug

Most of the people having been close friends of Capa tell that he was always half telling the truth, half fanciing it.

I have also read Richard Whelan's controversed biography and done a few serious university researches about Capa in the past.

I find him to be an exceptional photographer, whose work is still mostly unknown, and a great character. Is it enough to blindly take for granted and a holy truth some forged stories which don't resist a bit of logical explanations and crossed honest and meticulous fact-checking ?

Two years ago I went to the large house in Leipzig in which Capa took the photo of the last US soldier to be killed in Germany before the nazis surrendered in May 1945. There is a now a small museum dedicated to Capa in that house, which has been salvaged by the city of Leipzig and some private fundings. So, primary Capa bashing doesn't interest me. But this is not what I read in Coleman's writings, and from far.
 
The article which is the subject of this thread pointedly argues that Capa only stayed on the beach a short time, (a few minutes) presumably to support his hypothesis that Capa only took a few images - the famous "blurry" ones. I have said before that I do not believe at this stage at least that he only took those few images - the evidence I have read clearly suggests, based on first hand accounts by Life staff that he took 4 rolls of 35mm film on the beach and that he was there for a considerably longer time.

But even assuming he did leave as quick as he decently could (which Capa himself admits though he says he was there 90 minutes) so what if he got off the beach - who would not if they had the chance, having done the job in hand. In the case of a reporter though there was another critical reason for getting off the beach - to get the shots back in time to meet publication deadlines. No uploading to the 'net back then. And deadlines for an event like this were invariably tight - everyone would want to be first. Just like today.

I took the opportunity to pull from my bookshelf the book "Life Photographers: What They Saw" edited by John Loengard and re read the interview with another Life photo reporter Myron Davis who made landings during the Pacific War under fire.

In it (p129) Davis says about a landing in the Philippines which he accompanied:

"I took photographs of the people in my barge getting off. I made a decision in that moment based upon some rationale, but also on what some may call cowardice. I'd learned that if you stayed too long on the landing your material got back to Washington too late, it might not get published. .........I risked my life twice before and not one picture appeared in Life magazine. So I'd learned the smart thing even journalistically, in a way, was to get what you could get and get back safely with your film."

Capa would have been acutely aware of that same lesson. In fact, reviewing the relevant pages of "Blood and Champagne" Capa was up against the same kind of deadline except he only had to get his images to the London office- they would arrange carriage to USA for publication.

But even though he did leave the Omaha beaches when he did, they were almost literally holding the presses for his images - they arrived late in the day - 9.00 p.m. on the 7th June and the relevant issue of Life had a deadline of 9.00 a.m. the next morning to meet their timelines for carriage to USA and publication in the next issue. But first the films had to be developed, editorially assessed, prints made and the images submitted to the official US Army censor for approval. Tight indeed but they got the films to their Grosvenor Square offices at precisely 8.59 a.m. One minute to spare. "Down in the basement the courier was literally about to padlock the pouch when I found him" said Morris.

Little wonder the drying cabinet accident happened.

But first, for all of the above to happen, Capa had to get back to England on a ship from the Normandy beaches. When he arrived in England, in Weymouth he placed his undeveloped films in the hands of a courier and instead of him staying in England, which he could have done, he found another ship to take him back to Normandy to get more pictures.

I would argue that the above recounting of events from published and easily found sources tends to support the "official" version of what happened. Not the highly speculative version conveyed by the article.
 
Here's a hypothetical:
Capa took many more photographs and the public affairs bureau of the allied forces only liked 10 of them. At the time, the allies were in their fourth full year of all out war, on a global scale. People were rationing and many were going hungry, especially after the previous decade of the depression. So perhaps what Capa could have photographed were hundreds of soldiers dead in the surf and sand but between the supreme allied commander, the public affairs division and the actual publishers, it was judged that seeing a flotilla of corpses would have been horrible for already low morale. I'm just talking from having been the public affairs guy in my unit. I had to think about those things and then had to get my images cleared through my CO then 1MARDIV PAO in order to get my photos out on the wire.
Capa could have even been given the directive to stay away from shooting images of too many casualties because the mothers at home don't want to see their sons in the current issue of Life before the chaplain has knocked on the door.
Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Here's a hypothetical:
Capa took many more photographs and the public affairs bureau of the allied forces only liked 10 of them. At the time, the allies were in their fourth full year of all out war, on a global scale. People were rationing and many were going hungry, especially after the previous decade of the depression. So perhaps what Capa could have photographed were hundreds of soldiers dead in the surf and sand but between the supreme allied commander, the public affairs division and the actual publishers, it was judged that seeing a flotilla of corpses would have been horrible for already low morale. I'm just talking from having been the public affairs guy in my unit. I had to think about those things and then had to get my images cleared through my CO then 1MARDIV PAO in order to get my photos out on the wire.
Capa could have even been given the directive to stay away from shooting images of too many casualties because the mothers at home don't want to see their sons in the current issue of Life before the chaplain has knocked on the door.
Phil Forrest
Click to expand...

The US Army censors did not allow photos of dead troops to be published till quite late in the war - September 1943, I believe, when photos of dead US soldiers on the beach at Buna in New Guinea were published. They were very touchy about this for the reasons you suggest.

wwii-buna-beach-george-strock-01.jpg


http://time.com/3524493/the-photo-that-won-world-war-ii-dead-americans-at-buna-beach-1943/
 
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