Carl Zeiss & Vat

[Olsen]

Carl Zeiss has this web shop. The prices are inclusive 19% german VAT. Do they deduct this VAT when shipping to other EU countries?

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

My understanding is that they add the 19% German VAT for EU deliveries, unless you are VAT registered and elect for no VAT on the purchase as you'll pay it later at your local rate.

 

[ocean7]

Their web shop doesn't seem to offer real deals. For instance the ZM 50/2 is offered at 699.00 euros, plus shipping I guess. If you order from BH in New York it will cost you US$ 712.00 including EMS shipping to Norway, that's about 522.00 euros!

 

[MartinP]

Then you have to add tax on top of that 522 euros don't forget . . . !

 

[jsuominen]

This is not supposed to be an ad, but Shphoto.de in Germany seems to have slightly lower prices for Zeiss stuff than Zeiss own webshop... They are also official Zeiss dealer according to this page http://www.zeiss.com/C125722B0047F7F1/FrameSet?ReadForm&key=DE_eng

 

[Terao]

Carl Zeiss has this web shop. The prices are inclusive 19% german VAT. Do they deduct this VAT when shipping to other EU countries?

No, they don't. Within the EU you pay VAT once at the rate of the selling country (so if you bought from Robert White in the UK you would pay VAT of 17.5% on top). All EU countries agree not to apply VAT/import duty on imports from other EU countries as long as you pay those duties at source.

If you're outside the EU they won't add the VAT - whether you pay any on your purchase depends on local arrangements (i.e. how lax your Customs people are 🙄 )

 

[Roland X]

Des US custom charge import duty on camera & lenses, when it's mail ordered from Euro or Japan? Anybody know?

 

[Terao]

Duty is payable (budget 3% plus a handling charge) but whether you get charged it depends on the alignment of the planets it would seem. I've sent stuff to the US a fair bit, sometime people get charged duty, sometimes they get away with it and there is no particular pattern. The customs document is here:

http://hotdocs.usitc.gov/docs/tata/hts/bychapter/0702c90.pdf

Coming the other way its generally the case that stuff sent via USPS untracked gets through without duty whereas anything sent via a courier service always attracts it. Its a bit of a lottery but worth playing given the weak dollar. I'm sure US-based people who sell via RFF or ebay will have noticed the increased interest fom Europe and firm US$ prices (to the exclusion of US buyers) - for example used M3 bodies are relatively dirt cheap when bought from the US compared to buying them from Germany...

 

[EmilGil]

This is not supposed to be an ad, but Shphoto.de in Germany seems to have slightly lower prices for Zeiss stuff than Zeiss own webshop... They are also official Zeiss dealer according to this page http://www.zeiss.com/C125722B0047F7F1/FrameSet?ReadForm&key=DE_eng

That would be the first time SHphoto isn't the most expensive alternative available... 😀

 

[spyder2000]

It isn't surprising that a manufacturer's pricing would be higher than a retailer. After all, the manufacturer can discount their own profit margin which a dealer cannot. The dealer has to pay that but can discount his own 'overhead.' Not to mention, this type of competition would guarantee dealers would cease stocking and dealing product due to the unfairness of the competition.

 

[rxmd]

This doesn't help you much since you're in Norway, but within the EU if you are a commercial customer who has his own VAT Identification Number (VATIN), on international orders you can legally have the VAT of your own target country applied instead of the VAT of the source country. The dealer then usually ships things without VAT, and you have to apply your own VAT and declare it to the tax authorities (or that's how it works in Germany). You may have to ask your dealer how the procedure works in his particular case, as he may not have done this before.

For Scandinavians with their 25% VAT this is of course completely unattractive, but for Germans with their 19% VAT this can make a difference when ordering things from Scandinavia.

 

[EmilGil]

rxmd: It works in the same way in Sweden. When I got my VAT-number, the tax authority held an information meeting and said that it was much preferrable for recently started companies to buy their equipment from another EU-country as we wouldn't have to pay the VAT cost and wait for the refund the next year, we would just fill in the appropriate box in the tax declaration.

I can't see how it can't be attractive for Scandinavians? The net price is usually lower in Germany or the UK and the VAT on purchased goods is drawn from the VAT to be paid on sold goods or services in the same way as for things bought in Sweden. I've saved hundreds of euros from buying equipment from Germany or the UK and most importantly, I didn't have to lend the Swedish government my money for a year like I would had I bought the gear in Sweden.

 

[Didier]

Carl Zeiss has this web shop. The prices are inclusive 19% german VAT. Do they deduct this VAT when shipping to other EU countries?

The VAT is included in the prices of the e-shop. They mention under "Quick Info -> Shipping costs, customs duties":

Note: No value-added tax will be charged for deliveries to non-EU countries. However, you may incur country-specific taxes and customs duties outside the influence of Carl Zeiss.​

So for Norway you should deduct 19%, but add your VAT (if there is) and eventual custom fees. Don't know how it is for US imports in Norway, but from my country getting Zeiss stuff at Popflash would cost less than at the Zeiss shop, thanks to Tony's better prices.

Didier

 

[rxmd]

Hi Emil,

I can't see how it can't be attractive for Scandinavians?

OK, of course if goods purchased elsewhere in Europe have a lower base price it's attractive as it is. I was arguing from the viewpoint where you import a 100 EUR product, where it's preferable to pay the 19 EUR German VAT than to pay the 25 EUR Swedish VAT, but given generally high prices in Scandinavia that may well be the exception. Also it's of course preferable to having to get refunds a year later from a different government than the one which collected the VAT, or to having all sorts of awkward tax collection procedures in customs, which is the reason why we have the unified VAT procedure in the EU in the first place 🙂

 

[Terao]

To summarise: VAT, Sales Tax, and Import Duty is an evil restraint of trade 🙂

Ironic that within the EU varying VAT rates actually harm rather than protect local businesses dealing at either the consumer or business to business level. I'd be mad to buy a Hasselblad from Sweden or a Leica from Germany as a consumer, much better for me to buy in the UK (or even better to buy from Japan/HK and hope it gets in under the radar). I know a lot of Zeiss stuff originates in Japan anyway but its completely mad that German goods are cheaper from somewhere on the other side of the world even taking into account shipping charges. Its not just compact optical equipment that is affected by this - for example its actually cheaper to buy a UK-manufactured car from, for example, Hong Kong and then ship it all the way back to the UK. Same applies to UK cars sold in Holland - list prices are low due to the car tax that non-Dutch citizens don't have to pay.

 

[rxmd]

Ironic that within the EU varying VAT rates actually harm rather than protect local businesses dealing at either the consumer or business to business level. I'd be mad to buy a Hasselblad from Sweden or a Leica from Germany as a consumer, much better for me to buy in the UK (or even better to buy from Japan/HK and hope it gets in under the radar).

Well this is not only the result of VAT and other taxes, but also of different base prices. For example, Japanese cars are 25% cheaper in Denmark than in Germany, in spite of Danish VAT being higher. Base prices are set by the manufacturer. The nice thing is that as a consumer at least you have the option of buying elsewhere in the EU without having to smuggle your purchases through customs.

Philipp

 

[faris]

Zeiss and Vat

Zeiss and Vat

When i tried to order from their site, at the final checkout stage they included
vat to my order. even though i am residing in a ( and selected ) a non-eu country.

of course i cancelled my order.

Carl Zeiss has this web shop. The prices are inclusive 19% german VAT. Do they deduct this VAT when shipping to other EU countries?

 

[rxmd]

Hi Faris,

have you tried sending them an e-mail about it? It might just be a limitation of their web shop.

Also technically lens and shipping constitute different items on your final invoice. The lens should be VAT-free, while shipping is a service that is being done entirely within Germany and hence is subject to VAT. A number of online shops handle VAT this way, meaning that you still pay some VAT, but only on the shipping part. So if you buy a 1000 EUR lens with costs of 10 EUR, you pay 1.90 EUR VAT (on the shipping part). It's a bit complicated, but that's how it works in theory.

Philipp

 

[Olsen]

To summarise: VAT, Sales Tax, and Import Duty is an evil restraint of trade 🙂

Ironic that within the EU varying VAT rates actually harm rather than protect local businesses dealing at either the consumer or business to business level. I'd be mad to buy a Hasselblad from Sweden or a Leica from Germany as a consumer, much better for me to buy in the UK (or even better to buy from Japan/HK and hope it gets in under the radar). I know a lot of Zeiss stuff originates in Japan anyway but its completely mad that German goods are cheaper from somewhere on the other side of the world even taking into account shipping charges. Its not just compact optical equipment that is affected by this - for example its actually cheaper to buy a UK-manufactured car from, for example, Hong Kong and then ship it all the way back to the UK. Same applies to UK cars sold in Holland - list prices are low due to the car tax that non-Dutch citizens don't have to pay.

VAT has never been 'an evil restraint of trade'. World trade has never been better, and VAT around the world, higher. Cars, both new and 2.hand are being shipped criss-cross around the world to take advantage of local cheaper prices. VAT and customs fees shall not be payed before the car meets it's end user.

But VAT is a threat to certain 'local shops', as you mention, in countries with high VAT. Like photo shops (but also jewelry, watches etc.) in countries with high VAT and a public with high purchasing power that travels a lot. Like scandinavians. Here VAT is 20% off sales prices of photo gear, sometimes more. The obvious thing for a swede is to buy his new camera in USA or Hong Kong when on holiday or a business travel. Shopping 'tax free' he will save 20% off the price. Often more.

I am sure that this is a major reason to why we have seen a desimation of photo shops in scandinavia. People buy their photo gear abroad and 'smuggle' it homewithout paying VAT all.

I did send a letter to Carl Zeiss, however. Here is the answer I got:

Dear Mr. Olsen,

Thank you for your inquiry and interest in our products.

Of course, we will not charge you with the German VAT.

Best regards


Filomena Moore for
___________

Carl Zeiss AG
Geschäftsbereich Photoobjektive / Camera Lens Division
73446 Oberkochen - Germany
Telefon/Phone: +49 7364 20-6175
Fax: +49 7364 20-4045
mailto😛hoto@zeiss.de
http://www.zeiss.de/photo

Carl Zeiss AG, Carl-Zeiss-Straße 22, 73447 Oberkochen
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrates:Tilman Todenhöfer
Vorstand: Dr. Dieter Kurz (Vorsitzender)
Dr. Hermann Gerlinger, Dr. Michael Kaschke
Sitz der Gesellschaft: 73466 Oberkochen, Deutschland
Amtsgericht Ulm, HRB 501555, USt-IdNr: DE 811 119 940

Carl Zeiss Lens Shop <photo@zeiss.de>

 

[faris]

Hi Faris,

have you tried sending them an e-mail about it? It might just be a limitation of their web shop.

Also technically lens and shipping constitute different items on your final invoice. The lens should be VAT-free, while shipping is a service that is being done entirely within Germany and hence is subject to VAT. A number of online shops handle VAT this way, meaning that you still pay some VAT, but only on the shipping part. So if you buy a 1000 EUR lens with costs of 10 EUR, you pay 1.90 EUR VAT (on the shipping part). It's a bit complicated, but that's how it works in theory.

Philipp

Phiipp, I did not send them an e-mail. They added vat to my lens cost. shipping
i can understand. If they are careless about their on-line order form, imagine what might one have to undergo if there is an error in processing /order placement/charges and faulty goods!