gavinlg
Veteran
I couldn't agree more. And all modern DSLRs are exactly that - blobs. I hate having the big raised handgrip that they all have. The olympus e-420/e-620 were sooo nice in the hand because they had the flat body.
Arjay
Time Traveller
Part of my job is copywriting, and thus I re-read the 'craftmanship' section of the X100 website out of professional interest.
The description follows very closely to what I consider a product marketing proposal that might have been written to convince Fujifilm management of the potential of such a camera prior to starting the design project.
Remember that a manufacturer is primarily interested in making profit. For them, such a project is defined in terms of target market and projected sales volume. The target market defines the technical requirements, but also the sales arguments for any new product. Sales volumes cannot be planned, but they can be achieved if the manufacturer has correctly identified and analyzed his product's target market.
Sales arguments aren't exclusively technical specifications, because purchasing decisions are mostly made emotionally.
So, every good product marketing manager has to define the 'user experience' that his product has to deliver.
Remember, a camera manufacturer is not selling you good pictures, but the promise of being able to shoot them. Since that promise is hardly tangible because the user himself is another variable in this equation, the manufacturer is also selling you how good it will feel to use this new product.
This experience is what has been described in the X100 website's 'craftmanship' section. Or, in other words (pls forgive me if you find my comment sexist - I'm just overstating this for the sake of clarity):
These are the arguments your wife (who doesn't have a clue of photography) would need to convince herself that the X100 might be a terrific gift for you.
The description follows very closely to what I consider a product marketing proposal that might have been written to convince Fujifilm management of the potential of such a camera prior to starting the design project.
Remember that a manufacturer is primarily interested in making profit. For them, such a project is defined in terms of target market and projected sales volume. The target market defines the technical requirements, but also the sales arguments for any new product. Sales volumes cannot be planned, but they can be achieved if the manufacturer has correctly identified and analyzed his product's target market.
Sales arguments aren't exclusively technical specifications, because purchasing decisions are mostly made emotionally.
So, every good product marketing manager has to define the 'user experience' that his product has to deliver.
Remember, a camera manufacturer is not selling you good pictures, but the promise of being able to shoot them. Since that promise is hardly tangible because the user himself is another variable in this equation, the manufacturer is also selling you how good it will feel to use this new product.
This experience is what has been described in the X100 website's 'craftmanship' section. Or, in other words (pls forgive me if you find my comment sexist - I'm just overstating this for the sake of clarity):
These are the arguments your wife (who doesn't have a clue of photography) would need to convince herself that the X100 might be a terrific gift for you.
GSNfan
Well-known
Frankly speaking, and this might sound vain, but as a photographer I'm a little offended by Fuji's marketing. Its insulting to common sense and intelligence of an average photographer. Are we really that stupid to fall for that sort of product description? Its as if the tool itself is greater than what it does, namely taking photos. Not to mention all of this over a fixed lens APS-C digital camera.
Why not some sample images taken with the camera? why not some numbers for shutter lag, AF speed etc.
Why not some sample images taken with the camera? why not some numbers for shutter lag, AF speed etc.
gavinlg
Veteran
Because you can have 2 entirely different cameras that have the same specs - shutter lag/af speed etc that are entirely different in use. Listing specifications is the most boring way to describe a camera, and the least indicative of what it's like to use.
If you're offended don't read it! Who gets offended over a product description anyway? :bang:
Talex
Established
I actually enjoyed reading the craftsmanship section.The marketing-talk might be over the top, but it certainly seems the camera (and accessories) was designed by a bunch of fanatical Japanese who are obsessed with the smallest detail. And that is a good thing, historically speaking.
Think of any classic camera that is still fawned over decades after it was introduced: were any of them created by a designer/design team that was not obsessive? I would not hold this against Fuji at all.
Think of any classic camera that is still fawned over decades after it was introduced: were any of them created by a designer/design team that was not obsessive? I would not hold this against Fuji at all.
Arjay
Time Traveller
If anybody reading this thread is honest to him/herself, then he/she has to admit that our purchasing decisions aren't always and entirely rational. This might be an insult to our intellect, but it's an undeniable fact.
Let's get over it.
As for sample images and specifications - they might not be available just yet, but I'm sure we will see them as soon as functional pre-production copies of this camera will be available.
It's no use to complain about missing pictures or specs, because these can only be made available when camera design is almost finished.
But once these are available, even the most hard-boiled rationalists can make their (of course purely) rational buying decision.
GSNfan
Well-known
Imagine going to a camera store looking to buy a camera, and the overbearing camera rep talks to you in the same way? Wouldn't you feel offended? I would and I will walk out.
Forget everything else, Fuji should just show us some sample images from different ISO settings, show the bokeh of its F2 lens, show us the lens performance for instance if it has any barrel distortion or not. Show us a sample of ND filter at work, tell us the sound the shutter makes, tell us how this camera works, not how it feels and please don't bore us with what 'metaphor' means.
Nikon when announcing D3 the first thing they did was to post sample high ISO images. No fluff, no BS just concert evidence that why people should wait for their camera.
GSNfan
Well-known
If anybody reading this thread is honest to him/herself, then he/she has to admit that our purchasing decisions aren't always and entirely rational. This might be an insult to our intellect, but it's an undeniable fact.
Let's get over it.
As for sample images and specifications - they might not be available just yet, but I'm sure we will see them as soon as functional pre-production copies of this camera will be available.
It's no use to complain about missing pictures or specs, because these can only be made available when camera design is almost finished.
But once these are available, even the most hard-boiled rationalists can make their (of course purely) rational buying decision.
The fujiguys twiter feed clearly indicated that they had a working model to play with. Not to mention getting a sample image from the digital sensor does not really need a complete working model. So, there is a lot of telling but not much showing by Fuji... Or do we have to look at sample images from Nikon D90?
All of this could have been overlooked if Fuji hadn't gone on over the top with their marketing. Now they're talking in Leica-ish terms and if that is any indication they're planning for a Leica-ish price as well for X100.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I'm sure it will be a great camera. I'd like it if someone would make a digital camera in the 8 to 12 MP range with a Leica M bayonet mount; and a DSLR with a Leica R mount and full auto diaphragm function. I don't need multipoint focus or metering; just the basics would be fine.
Based on Fuji's history of such innovations as the XPan, and now the X100, they might just be the right people to come up with one or both.
Based on Fuji's history of such innovations as the XPan, and now the X100, they might just be the right people to come up with one or both.
Talex
Established
Why not withhold judgment until after the camera comes out, and you can test it for yourself? Right now, Fuji is only offering us a teaser, with stories of obsessive Japanese designers going over ever detail, no matter how trivial.
I personally find it entertaining to read, and I wouldn't want it any other way. How would you feel if Fuji depicted their designers as a bunch of lazy, sloppy engineers who don't care about photography and traditional camera design?
gavinlg
Veteran
If the camera rep talked to me about how the camera was made, how they selectively made the shutter sound a certain way, how they made the dials and knobs specifically for tactile response they would be the best camera rep around.
What DOES make me want to walk out is when they go saying things like "this has xx.x megapixels which means that you can crop a lot" or "it has a smile detection mode so you'll never miss a smile again". Features and spec lists mean squat to me, because I can take better pictures with a $15 holga than I can with a $500 14 megapixel point and shoot.
I am emotionally invested in cameras because they are tools that are used emotionally. Pictures taken with no emotion are dead pictures. If you can connect with your camera on a level that is more than just plastic and knobs, you enjoy the process more, you take better pictures. Hell, I've had cameras before that i've now sold because the sound of the shutter annoyed me - and I'm a working pro photographer.
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Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
The one yucky thing that no one has locked onto is the "filter adapter ring" that is necessary to mount the lens hood (or filters). Hopefully, it's not ugly.
Otherwise, it looks nice and is very much the same ethic as the original Hexar. I'll be perverse and say I hope it is expensive. That will keep the riff-raff away from it.
By the way, the pictures of the designers at the end remind me of an old Onion article titled "Japanese dude with the crazy hair 'must be an artist or something.'" Also, did anyone catch sight of the prototype with hybrid AF? One of the designers is holding a mockup with the passive AF windows in the same place as on the GA645zi.
Dante
BTW, chrome is not all bad. Go to Luxor in June sometime and see how fast your black cameras heat to their 140 F operating limit.
Otherwise, it looks nice and is very much the same ethic as the original Hexar. I'll be perverse and say I hope it is expensive. That will keep the riff-raff away from it.
By the way, the pictures of the designers at the end remind me of an old Onion article titled "Japanese dude with the crazy hair 'must be an artist or something.'" Also, did anyone catch sight of the prototype with hybrid AF? One of the designers is holding a mockup with the passive AF windows in the same place as on the GA645zi.
Dante
BTW, chrome is not all bad. Go to Luxor in June sometime and see how fast your black cameras heat to their 140 F operating limit.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
No one but Leica will offer Leica-ish price.
Marketing is just that...marketing.
Pride in workmanship is not limited to high price goods. The real challenge is to make good stuff under sane production budget. In the end, the delight would be holding a nice but affordable product in hand.
Fuji does not owe us a blow-by-blow report, nor a pixel-by-pixel imagery analysis. Those who have faith will wait...March is only a few months away.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
Actually I have, day one in the Photokina surprise. I had even posted a link to a picture from another RFF member in the "X-100 Back to the Future" thread and updated Post 1 only yesterday.
The adapter is just a silver metal ring, with 49mm female thread for filters and outside bayonet claws for the vented/tilted lens hood.
I imagine the looks, when mounted, is not different than the CV 35/1.4.
videogamemaker
Well-known
If you read a bit more closely, it sounds like they meant "on a lens this short in depth" The lens protrusion is incredibly small, much less so than most lenses with aperture rings. The way they seemed to have solved it, and rather ingeniously I might add, is to make the part you hold protrude forward, but only on the bottom half. This allows the focusing ring to be wider (or at least on the half where the extruded aperture ring isn't). Very nice design, and worth mentioning in my opinion.
The d90 sensor is a great sensor, 2 years old or no. It has one of the highest rated crop sensors on dxomark, bested only recently by the Pentax k-5. Plus as the Sony a900 vs Nikon D3x have shown us, even the same sensor in different bodies can wield different dynamic range and noise amounts depending on how clean the signal path is from sensor to recording media. Honestly if I had to pick a cropped sensor to go into it at my own behest, it would be the Pentax k-5 with the d90's close after. I mean the d90 still has 10 stops of dynamic range at ISO 3200, nothing to sneeze at at all. If anything, having the d90 sensor makes me want to buy it *more* since it's a known sensor of high quality, than a brand new design I don't know about yet (that could be better of course, but unknown). Something to think about is that while the M9 sensor has higher resolution, the D90 has much higher dynamic range at all ISO stops, and is almost identical in other factors (noise, tonal range, color depth)
Then again I'm still using an original 5D to make great images and don't feel like newer/more-mega-pixels is always a good thing.
I'm new to RFF, but is it always this whiny? There are many mean-spirited and bitter posts in every x100 thread it seems, from people who have no intension of purchasing this camera, but only seem to want to ruin the fun for the potential buyers.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
And, did anyone notice in the first picture with the camera body parts all laid out...the camera body front has a large hole; also a couple silver flange-looking parts...perhaps for a future lens mount?
Story Chapter 1 shown the lens as an encased module, complete with IF motors. The various rings we now see are only external accesses to aperture and manual focus...so an M-mount is unlikely.
Besides, why should Fuji make lenses for a 50 year old mount that cannot support modern lens designs?
Story Chapter 1 shown the lens as an encased module, complete with IF motors. The various rings we now see are only external accesses to aperture and manual focus...so an M-mount is unlikely.
Besides, why should Fuji make lenses for a 50 year old mount that cannot support modern lens designs?
GSNfan
Well-known
To videogamemaker: My questions are valid and helps me make my buying decision. The average age in this forum is not 16, so don't worry, no one is going to be swayed by those who don't blindly follow every gimmicky badly written marketing brochure.
I'll wait for X100 release and I sincerely hope that it lives up to the hype.
I'll wait for X100 release and I sincerely hope that it lives up to the hype.
videogamemaker
Well-known
I went to find the post you are mentioning, but I do not see it. I see a post where you link to another post, but it is picture free. Could you point me to the picture URL here or in PM?
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
Matus
Well-known
I have hard time to understand why on earth the camera does not directly accepts filters - 49 mm or whatever - why an adapter ???.
I hope the camera can at least accept a filter AND a lens hood at the same time. I am not going to add more to bashing of the "Design" chapter, but the filters, come on, Fuji !
I hope the camera can at least accept a filter AND a lens hood at the same time. I am not going to add more to bashing of the "Design" chapter, but the filters, come on, Fuji !