Chapter 3: Designers tell their X100 story

videogamemaker said:
DSLR image quality is quite easy to understand if one has worked with files produced by one.<...>
Click to expand...

Yeah, and all of that is a non-sequitur. The statement was that the NEX is the only compact out there producing DSLR quality images. That's just wrong: the X1 puts out equivalently usable, versatile, excellent images. Being the first compact digital camera acceptable to Getty Images is a strong statement about its IQ.

You state plenty of fine criticisms of the X1. None of those make the initial statement true.
 
At least we can cut Leica some slack because they were the ones who came up with this particular design that X100 is the latest interpretation, not to mention the legacy of Leica-using photographers. Leica has the pedigree, so let them go wild with it.

Fuji on the other hand is speaking about the design of X100 as if its their own original idea. Fuji design team did not meditate over the word metaphor to come up with body design for X100, they probably spent a lot of time with a Leica M3, a Cannonet QL GIII and many similar cameras before their final design decision...

Anyway, a few days back we were discussing X100 from a technical perspective and the discussion was polite and free of sarcastic bs and fanboyish diatribes. I guess this new design article by Fuji got the attention of the potential customers they were looking for. Many times I have not bought a product because of its fanboys (apple products) i hope the same does not happen with X100.
 
hteasley said:
Yeah, and all of that is a non-sequitur. The statement was that the NEX is the only compact out there producing DSLR quality images. That's just wrong: the X1 puts out equivalently usable, versatile, excellent images. Being the first compact digital camera acceptable to Getty Images is a strong statement about its IQ.

You state plenty of fine criticisms of the X1. None of those make the initial statement true.
Click to expand...

You are right, the X1 does put out high quality images. I had forgotten it when posting because I've already discounted it for it's slow lens and lack of viewfinder. If I am to give up interchangeable lenses, it better be for a really good reason, and slow AF plus the arms-length experience isn't it.
 
I'm surprised about all the negative reactions here. Sounds to me like Fuji is preemptively addressing details that are important to anyone interested in high-end rangefinders. How many threads on RFF are dedicated to luxury Italian cases and calf-leather grip replacements?

Anyone interested in purchasing "just a camera" knows that there are hundreds of compact digitals out there that fill this roll already. Fuji's just trying to inform us that their new offering might live up to our notoriously intense scrutiny. Because all kidding aside, we probably wouldn't buy this x100 if the knobs felt cheap.
 
videogamemaker said:
You are right, the X1 does put out high quality images. I had forgotten it when posting because I've already discounted it for it's slow lens and lack of viewfinder. If I am to give up interchangeable lenses, it better be for a really good reason, and slow AF plus the arms-length experience isn't it.
Click to expand...

It is much better with a viewfinder attached. I put a Voigtlander 35mm viewfinder on mine, and it has made a world of difference with how I use and interact with the camera.

With the good high ISO performance, the 1 stop difference in lenses isn't really a problem. It's a flawed camera, but by no means discountable, and certainly not on IQ grounds.

I'm anxious for the Fuji, and hope it can match the X1's IQ while improving on the areas the X1 is weak.
 
Fuji is doing about the same thing that the Olympus team did when the OM-1 landed on the planet. There had been many SLRs before them, but they made something everyone now realizes was quite special. At this moment in time, IMO, the X100 is also something quite special. Maybe the 'special-ness' is simply due to a sum of the new details, but they add up to what I hope is a shift in the DSLR speeding-down-the-track direction. (fingers crossed)
 
When you announce a product almost one-half year before you release the product... and this assumes a March release, you had better do something to keep people interested and to stop them from using their good money to buy another product.
 
GSNfan said:
Imagine going to a camera store looking to buy a camera, and the overbearing camera rep talks to you in the same way? Wouldn't you feel offended? I would and I will walk out.


Forget everything else, Fuji should just show us some sample images from different ISO settings, show the bokeh of its F2 lens, show us the lens performance for instance if it has any barrel distortion or not. Show us a sample of ND filter at work, tell us the sound the shutter makes, tell us how this camera works, not how it feels and please don't bore us with what 'metaphor' means.

Nikon when announcing D3 the first thing they did was to post sample high ISO images. No fluff, no BS just concert evidence that why people should wait for their camera.
Click to expand...

Naaah... posting pictures over the internet is so overrated. I mean, would you really know if it was taken with the camera?

Those things are better tried ourselves, not read on brochures.

Plus, with the attitude of people nowadays regarding internet marketing, who really believes in the internet? Post a very good sample picture and you'll probably say "It's too good, that's not possible!"
 
Fuji have published the MTF graphs already. For a pre-release camera, that's already pretty good. And those graphs look — at first glance, anyway — darned good.
 
igi said:
Naaah... posting pictures over the internet is so overrated. I mean, would you really know if it was taken with the camera?

Those things are better tried ourselves, not read on brochures.

Plus, with the attitude of people nowadays regarding internet marketing, who really believes in the internet? Post a very good sample picture and you'll probably say "It's too good, that's not possible!"
Click to expand...

Actually I remember most people saying exactly that about the original D3 posted images (and the 5d mark II to a degree also). The noise was just too low to be believable till it was out and the reality sunk in collectively.

One thing I liked about this latest update is the talk about the knobs having firm strong clicks. I borrowed a friend's Canon s90, and it had a far too easy to rotate back wheel which adjusted far too easy as sliding in and out of the pocket, and when reading the DPreview of the X1, they mentioned some of those knobs being similar in that they rotated too easily. This is the kind of thing where you can't just tell from photos of the product, and sometimes not even from your initial pickup in the store. They are usability factors that while you will need months to be 100% sure yourself, a designer can tell you about items they have already noticed and spent time addressing. This is exactly how I feel they described the design of the interface. If there are physical knobs, I want to turn smoothly but have strong detents to prevent accidental rotations. That's the sign of a high-end product to me anyway.
 
semilog said:
Fuji have published the MTF graphs already. For a pre-release camera, that's already pretty good. And those graphs look — at first glance, anyway — darned good.
Click to expand...

My guess/hope is this: The hardware is almost 100% decided on at this point, as that would be very hard to retool and redesign significantly this late in the game, which is why so many of the updates are about this. The lens design in particular has probably been fixed for a while, and hence, MTF is already able to be measured.

The sensor performance, however, can be improved up till the last moment both by changes in the architecture of the electronic hardware, and the firmware controlling the processor chip. I imagine whatever quality the images their working prototypes upon announcement spit out, is well bested by the quality of the most recent prototypes, so why put out images that are already outdated, when most people are making up their mind? I'm sure sample images will come out at least a week or two before product launch, giving anyone who was fence sitting time to make up their mind before launch day. Now, where that will put them in the pre-order line is up for guessing, but does anyone really think we'll get to launch day without example images?

I would love for a camera manufacturer to partner with DXOmark to have their full sensor performance already reviewed before launch day. I never work with Jpegs, my cameras don't even create them if I have the option to turn it off, so reading reviews about jpegs is always frustrating to me. I want to know what my computer is able to output from the camera with my aesthetic guidance as to where it should record which tones and colors and in which zones, not the baby computer inside the camera according to a one-size-fits-all contrast curve.
 
kermaier said:
No, i'd go further -- it's what Leica have done with every camera offering, RF, P&S, film or digital, since the M6. They understand that, admit it or not, even many "real" photographers enjoy using a fine, luxury instrument in pursuit of their craft, as well as the associated cachet. And they certainly understand that a large part of the commercial viability of their products and their brand depends on continuing to attract well-heeled amateurs and collectors. The sense that there should be some shame in enjoying the finesse of such tools is a kind of reverse snobbery no better than the sort which insists that a Bessa R4M is somehow a lesser photographic tool than an M7. And as for those who are repelled by the marketing copy, I'll go out on a limb here and say that a good percentage doth protest too much. ;)

::Ari
Click to expand...

Great post. I don't give a rat's ass about cachet, but I love a well designed tool, for my own satisfaction. The M8 feels perfect to me. So does the new Pentax SLR. Fuji is going out of their way to say, "We REALLY thought this through." EVERYONE wanted them to release an m4/3 or other large(ish)-sensor compact last year, but they took their time, in to make something special.

We'll see how it works out in practice, but I don't think they would be expending this kind of effort and publicity for a camera they don't feel 100% confident about.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom