Cheap, reasonably reliable medium format (120) camera/system - suggestions?

M4cr0s

Back In Black
Local time
1:25 PM
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
177
Location
Oslo/Norway
Well I guess the title says it all. Looking to try my hand at something larger than 35mm while they still process it...not planning to shoot a lot though, whatever camera do not have to be built to survive a nuclear war 😉

I'm not really knowledgeable about anything larger than 35mm at all and certainly not the various camera systems. I do however own a medium-format camera, a brownie so far gone it's only suitable for the shelf 😛

I'm looking for something with a non-interchangeable lens with what is comparable to a 50mm +/- equivalent focal length in 135-terms, or a system that is reasonably/very common and hopefully cheap to get into (I live in a small marked, ordering from abroad not much of an option due to taxes). Oh, and preferably something thats not typically riddled with technical issues like laggy shutters. SLRs constitutes no "ideological" problem for me. Built-in metering very much preferable.

Hoping to get some sound advice/suggestions and not get my head chopped off by the forum police 😉

Mac
 
I like Rolleicord 6x6 TLRs but they are vintage, no meter or automation.

The Bronica ETRS and Mamiya 645 systems are very affordable 6x4.5 SLRs with meters, as are (some of) the small Fuji Rangefinders, but sometimes the 6x4.5 format is too small.

The Rolleiflex SLRs can sometimes be inexpensive but also can have electronics issues.

Bronica SLRs are well regarded and not too expensive.

The Mamiya Press 6x9 is very rugged and gives you a significantly larger negative. Of course the various German 6x9 folding cameras will as well but accurate close focusing is not their strength.

Mamiya RB67s are dirt cheap -- they are the best value by weight!
 
Bronica S2a. The lenses are Nikkors and there is a very large range of system lenses available. I once owned a 300mm f/4.5 for that camera and it cost less than $1 per millimeter.

the S2a is a great system. After that, the ECTL is a good one too, but you have to make sure you get one with a good electronic controller inside. The boards are known to go and then you have a nice doorstop until you find a new board or donor camera. My ECTL never failed me though.

Both are fun cameras and probably the cheapest way to get into a 6x6 system with all that capability (interchangeable backs that take 120/220, metered finders, high quality lens range from 45mm-600mm, helical lens mounts that you can add your own homemade hacked lenses on to.)

Phil Forrest
 
Find yourself a serviced Pentacon SixTL and a meter-prism and you're all set, probably for 200 euros or less. Look at Cupog on the auction site. More detail on the system can be found at www.pentaconsix.com. The Kiev-60 looks to be related but you will likely have more problems with them as they are only superficially similar.
 
I guess ebay is not an option due to the Norwegian VAT and expensive handling by the Norwegian Post....... every now and then medium format cameras will show up on finn.no. I think the way to go is to see what is available...
 
Mamiya C330. Dirt cheap, pretty rugged and gives you interchangeable lenses, unlike a Rolleiflex or a Yashica-Mat. Mamiya RB 67 is cheap too these days, but once you are in that zone you really have your choice among the work-horse MF system of yester-decade.

Ben Marks
 
I'd go with a Rolleicord if you can find one ... they're dirt cheap on eBay. I think I paid $75.00 for mine from a seller in Sweden and it came with an immaculate leather case and no problems ... and looked like it had had minimal use.
 
Hey guys, thank you very much for suggestions. This is getting me starting. I got names/models and got something to look for and read up on. Excellent! I'm certainly finding a number of RB67s at the local auction sites. Mostly rather complete kits with several lenses and costing around $1200 though. I can afford that, but I won't spend that much. I have a feeling that I might be looking for a while, but that's okay, many of these cameras are seriously beautiful machines. I need time to make a decision and then make a serious attempt at buying. Point is, you've got me started with the process 🙂

@ sig
foto.no is a decent site for lenses, tend to be a lot of traffic in that category and serious buyers/sellers, unlike the "riffraff" at finn.no (for you Yanks and Brittons, finn.no would be the "special" child if Ebay and Craigslist had a baby and dumped it in Norway).

If anyone have more to ad, feel free to shoot! 🙂


Mac
 
One of the Fuji 6x7 or 6x9 rangefinders..?? no meter though. I have the version before last , gs670 II, usually under $500..
 
Unfortunately Fuji 6x7/9 rangefinders have always been very rare in northern Europe. I'd love to have one but I know that I'd get into difficulties when the camera will need some mechanical care. From servicing and spare parts point of view (in Scandinavia) there are two 6x6 camera models above others: Rollei and Hassy. Both are great choices. I personally prefer Rolleicords and -flexes.
 
Everyone it tiptoeing around the gorilla in the room: Mamiya 645 - easily available, inexpensive, plenty of lens choices, and reliable. By the way, my battery is over 10 years old in mine and it just keeps clicking ...
 
Everyone it tiptoeing around the gorilla in the room: Mamiya 645 - easily available, inexpensive, plenty of lens choices, and reliable. By the way, my battery is over 10 years old in mine and it just keeps clicking ...

I'm with Chris on this one. I own both a Mamiya 645E slr and a Fujifilm GA645 rangefinder. Both take superb pictures and the size is easier for someone transitioning from 35mm to get used to. Neither is particularly expensive.
 
Mamiya 645, Rolleicord IV or V, a folder in good condition. They're all great deals and can be had cheaply. It really depends more on what you want in the camera (flexibility => Mamiya, tlr experience/focusing => Rollei, most compact/scale focus => inexpensive folders)

On the folders, you can definitely find ones with coupled rangefinders but there is a premium for them. If scale focus works for you, you can find great deals on camera.
 
Hei Mac. Synd du ikke fulgte med på Foto.no for et par uker siden. Der gikk det en RB67 for litt over 4KNOK med 85mm objektiv tror jeg det var. Det finnes gode tilbud i Norge også, av og til.

For you English speaking people, I was just telling Mac that there are good deals to be had in Norway too, as long as we are not talking Hasselblad, they tend to be inflated in price. Fuji´s especially seem to depreciate nicely over here.

Some people tend to speak ill of the Kowa 6/66 system. But I find my Super 66 to do me just fine. I´ve run 15 rolls through it now, and the only thing I´ve done is replace the light seals on the film back and the mirror dampener. The leaf shuttered lenses however need to be pristine. They can gum up and cause all sorts of trouble. Mine have been recently CLA´d and work just fine. They are pretty sharp too.

Take a look at this gallery and see what you think: http://www.apug.org/gallery1/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=39149
 
Hey guys, thank you very much for suggestions. This is getting me starting. I got names/models and got something to look for and read up on. Excellent! I'm certainly finding a number of RB67s at the local auction sites. Mostly rather complete kits with several lenses and costing around $1200 though. I can afford that, but I won't spend that much. I have a feeling that I might be looking for a while, but that's okay, many of these cameras are seriously beautiful machines. I need time to make a decision and then make a serious attempt at buying. Point is, you've got me started with the process 🙂

@ sig
foto.no is a decent site for lenses, tend to be a lot of traffic in that category and serious buyers/sellers, unlike the "riffraff" at finn.no (for you Yanks and Brittons, finn.no would be the "special" child if Ebay and Craigslist had a baby and dumped it in Norway).

If anyone have more to ad, feel free to shoot! 🙂


Mac

Thats a crazy price for an rz, look more around the 300-400 dollars for an RZ67 with the 110 2.8 if you want an SLR, or a Rolleiflex 3.5 MX-EVS for about 200 if you want a TLR would be my reccomendation.
 
Everyone it tiptoeing around the gorilla in the room: Mamiya 645 - easily available, inexpensive, plenty of lens choices, and reliable. By the way, my battery is over 10 years old in mine and it just keeps clicking ...

I agree, I have used a Mamiya 645 system for 16 years and I love it. Cheap, easy to handhold, very good lenses, and an 80mm f1.9 is available for low light work! The Super and Pro models were the last in the line and were easier to handhold if you get the winder grips for them and they offer interchangeable backs and autoexposure if you get the meter prism. I have a Super with 2 backs, 4 lenses, winder, and non-metered prism. I bought mine new 16 yrs ago and back then the meter prism was like $800! Today they're nearly free so you might as well get the metered one.
 
Hei Mac. Synd du ikke fulgte med på Foto.no for et par uker siden. Der gikk det en RB67 for litt over 4KNOK med 85mm objektiv tror jeg det var. Det finnes gode tilbud i Norge også, av og til.

Two weeks ago I was busy with another camera buy/sell project (finally found my childhood dream, a working Nikon FM2/FE2, a quest that was riddled with bodies with various problems before I found a good one) 😀 Definitely looks like this will be a gear fest of a winter for me as I need to acquire "serious stuff" for work too and I got a little more money than I strictly need. Oh well, it's fun and keeps one busy in the gloomy winter darkness 😉 At least I can get some tax refunds on gear purchases when I start my own very, very, very small and certainly not profitable photo business next year.

For you English speaking people, I was just telling Mac that there are good deals to be had in Norway too, as long as we are not talking Hasselblad, they tend to be inflated in price. Fuji´s especially seem to depreciate nicely over here.

Some people tend to speak ill of the Kowa 6/66 system. But I find my Super 66 to do me just fine. I´ve run 15 rolls through it now, and the only thing I´ve done is replace the light seals on the film back and the mirror dampener. The leaf shuttered lenses however need to be pristine. They can gum up and cause all sorts of trouble. Mine have been recently CLA´d and work just fine. They are pretty sharp too.

Take a look at this gallery and see what you think: http://www.apug.org/gallery1/browseimages.php?do=member&imageuser=39149

I must be doing something wrong, I've been registered on APUG for ages (although I haven't visited the site recently), but I can't view your images other than thumbnails even when logged in. From musing at the thumbnails they look like lovely B/W though! 🙂

Mac
 
Thats a crazy price for an rz, look more around the 300-400 dollars for an RZ67 with the 110 2.8 if you want an SLR, or a Rolleiflex 3.5 MX-EVS for about 200 if you want a TLR would be my reccomendation.

I agree the price seems excessive. However general price level is higher here, have to ad 25-50 % even on used stuff to get an idea compared to the US. Maybe I need to find a middle man that can buy one for me, wrap it up in Christmas paper, and send it 😉 Hmm....I hear those Nigerian fellows is very helpful with buying, selling, wiring money over Western Union and stuff!

Mac
 
Back
Top Bottom