wintoid
Back to film
rover said:
Sounds like parenthood to me
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Is it because some places are fragmented and each person looks after their own, and suspects everybody else?
Here a kid can leave home to go to school, wave to a neighbor, say hello to an uncle at his shop, kiss a cousin on her way to the shop, and say 'Hi!' to me. All in a few minutes and all in complete safety.
Any stranger in town stands out like a sore thumb and we would all keep well-aware and vigilant. But never obviously so.
Here a kid can leave home to go to school, wave to a neighbor, say hello to an uncle at his shop, kiss a cousin on her way to the shop, and say 'Hi!' to me. All in a few minutes and all in complete safety.
Any stranger in town stands out like a sore thumb and we would all keep well-aware and vigilant. But never obviously so.
IGMeanwell
Well-known
Perhaps a question might be ... is it gear driven?
Is there a difference between the camera with the zoom lens, the smaller rangefinder, and the even smaller, perhaps less intimidating, point and shoots?
Or does it not matter.... its just the particular person observing the fact there is a person (who may or may not be related to the subject) taking pictures of a toddler who has a funny look on his/her face?
Or is it the fear of the person who is taking those photos and what might happen to those photos?
Either way
I think, as Rover stated, a matter of making your intentions known and acting smart if there is someone who may protest
That being said, any street shooting, I avoid taking pictures of the youngsters unless I know my subject.... just to not cause any unwanted disturbance
Is there a difference between the camera with the zoom lens, the smaller rangefinder, and the even smaller, perhaps less intimidating, point and shoots?
Or does it not matter.... its just the particular person observing the fact there is a person (who may or may not be related to the subject) taking pictures of a toddler who has a funny look on his/her face?
Or is it the fear of the person who is taking those photos and what might happen to those photos?
Either way
I think, as Rover stated, a matter of making your intentions known and acting smart if there is someone who may protest
That being said, any street shooting, I avoid taking pictures of the youngsters unless I know my subject.... just to not cause any unwanted disturbance
Welsh_Italian
Established
In the UK, this is a very prevalent thing. I remember being out one Sunday morning taking photos in the centre of the city here and was wearing a suit (this was after going to church) so I looked professional. A couple of young boys (11-12 years?) were having a good time in the city themselves and asked me to take their picture, but I felt I had to say no to them.
In the Philippines though, it's very different. Sometimes, if I bring out a camera, I get mobbed by people who want their picture taken and who then get confused because they can't see the picture I've just taken on the back of the camera
I sometimes wonder if fear is a necessary part of society or that it will always arise no matter what the living conditions. In the UK, despite the gloomy and scary news we get, we are extremely privileged and safe by comparison to other countries who have much more to fear. I guess their fears are more immediate and realistic (like not having enough food) which helps them keep a sense of perspective about things.
In the Philippines though, it's very different. Sometimes, if I bring out a camera, I get mobbed by people who want their picture taken and who then get confused because they can't see the picture I've just taken on the back of the camera
I sometimes wonder if fear is a necessary part of society or that it will always arise no matter what the living conditions. In the UK, despite the gloomy and scary news we get, we are extremely privileged and safe by comparison to other countries who have much more to fear. I guess their fears are more immediate and realistic (like not having enough food) which helps them keep a sense of perspective about things.
IGMeanwell
Well-known
Pitxu said:
Well my questions were merely vehicles for more discussion
honestly I think we all know why there are people who are very protective of the their children... I guess that is off this particular topic
The question is does it change our shooting? I say there are instances when that answer is yes
Does it change the way I photograph at a wedding, a portrait session that happens to be in a public area, or an even an event where you are apart of press? Then its more about the job, especially when you have people to vouch for you I think its less of an issue.
chikne
Well-known
Pitxu said:
Classic...
Well, I can't be done with any threads, but......
I can't agree more. This is all just a bit about personal interaction and respect for each other and not about rights or freedom.
jbf
||||||
Does it stop me from shooting? No.
Usually if the parent is near I simply tell them I'm a student photographer doing portraits and if it is ok for me to take their kids photograph. If they say ok I take the photos. If they say no, I dont. Simple as that.
If the parents arn't around I take them anyway. Almost all the time I'm not 'just' photographing kids. Usually I'm photographing a whole ton of people and other things, so I hardly think it really matters. Let them give their jeering looks or whatever.
Usually if the parent is near I simply tell them I'm a student photographer doing portraits and if it is ok for me to take their kids photograph. If they say ok I take the photos. If they say no, I dont. Simple as that.
If the parents arn't around I take them anyway. Almost all the time I'm not 'just' photographing kids. Usually I'm photographing a whole ton of people and other things, so I hardly think it really matters. Let them give their jeering looks or whatever.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
What is this if it is not freedom?rover said:
I see the argument as between two groups.
On the one hand we have those who say, "None of this is very important, given goodwill and common sense, so those who seek to ban, control or formalize everything are at best misguided."
On the other we have those who are at best misguided.
But if we have to formalize things, because of pressure from the latter -- and boy do they make their feelings known -- then I'd rather see a right to photograph than a vague and ill-thought-out 'right to privacy' in public places. I mean, surveillance cameras and camera 'phones are OK, but a 35mm camera isn't? Wheee!
Cheers,
R.
feenej
Well-known
Sorry if you guys are sick of this, but I thot I'd tell what happened here this summer. A guy at the Wisconsin State Fair was tackled by a dad then arrested by the police for taking "random" photos of kids. We followed the story in the news. He was never charged with anything (he was not breaking any laws).
ChadHahn
Established
It all seems silly to me to be worried about the man with a big camera and lens.
No matter if you are worried about pedophiles, terrorists or industrial spies, why they be so obvious when there are cellphone cameras that take high megapixel images and palmable digital cameras?
There is so much pornography available on the internet catering to perversions that you never heard of, why would someone want to take pictures of kids in parks when they can just download what they want?
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself and making us fear is a big business, both for the government who wants a controllable populace and the media who keeps us watching by letting us know all the bogeymen out there just waiting to get us.
I too am signing off. I'm going to take my camera, grab my child and head to the park.
No matter if you are worried about pedophiles, terrorists or industrial spies, why they be so obvious when there are cellphone cameras that take high megapixel images and palmable digital cameras?
There is so much pornography available on the internet catering to perversions that you never heard of, why would someone want to take pictures of kids in parks when they can just download what they want?
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself and making us fear is a big business, both for the government who wants a controllable populace and the media who keeps us watching by letting us know all the bogeymen out there just waiting to get us.
I too am signing off. I'm going to take my camera, grab my child and head to the park.
Roger Hicks said:
Why would freedom be a conflicting idea to respect and courtesy?
Larky
Well-known
Wow, I started a long thread here! I think the thing to do is just be sensible, and see how it is at the time. But thanks for all the comments.
ernesto
Well-known
I understand perfectly what you mean.
I am glad we have not that problem here in Argentina.
Should I say: yet?
Ernesto
I am glad we have not that problem here in Argentina.
Should I say: yet?
Ernesto
BillBingham2
Registered User
I'm not sure it's only about freedom, I think it's about trying to find different ways to deal with and handle the situation. Early this fall I had enough of driving my son to school, he "Missed the bus" again so I said walk. Not being old enough to walk alone I figured I would follow him. So off he went and I drove after him. About 10 blocks from the house and one block from school an unmarked cop car pulled in front of me, another behind me. My plates were from a neighboring state and I had not combed what is left of my hair. They asked for my license and what I was doing. As I handed it over I explained to them it was the same thing they were doing, making sure my son was safe on the way to school. After asking my son (via radio) a few questions I answered correctly we all parted friends. Was I mad, h3ll no. We have had scares around here a few times in the past 10 years and I am much happier that someone cared enough to watch out for my son.
I usually have the other son with me when I shoot so I'm not a lone wolf if you will. Also, my stuff is so small (RF, F2) that I don't get a lot of looks. When I have gotten comments over the years I ignore them for the first, if a second comes I walk up to them and identify myself (respectfully) and take it from there. I explain that just because I am looking through the camera does not mean I am taking a picture so not to worry. If they escalate I just excuse myself and walk away and continue what I was doing. I live in OZ so few folks are willing to call the cops for something silly as this. Way too many lawyers live here to start throwing yellow fluid.
After all the crap I got growing up and then being the only kid with a camera in his hand throughout High School, it's water off a ducks back. When my wife gives me crap about not spending time with the family, that's something different, her I care about.
B2 (;->
I usually have the other son with me when I shoot so I'm not a lone wolf if you will. Also, my stuff is so small (RF, F2) that I don't get a lot of looks. When I have gotten comments over the years I ignore them for the first, if a second comes I walk up to them and identify myself (respectfully) and take it from there. I explain that just because I am looking through the camera does not mean I am taking a picture so not to worry. If they escalate I just excuse myself and walk away and continue what I was doing. I live in OZ so few folks are willing to call the cops for something silly as this. Way too many lawyers live here to start throwing yellow fluid.
After all the crap I got growing up and then being the only kid with a camera in his hand throughout High School, it's water off a ducks back. When my wife gives me crap about not spending time with the family, that's something different, her I care about.
B2 (;->
BillBingham2
Registered User
Fred,
I think you hit upon it. You talk with people, with respect and it works. NYC has it's own twist on the world, but when I did that in NY it worked the same way it does here, fine. I spent a lot of time all over the city (Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan) and never caught a great deal of crap for anyone. When it started to go that way, I talked with them and most of the time things worked out fine. When it did not, I picked up myself and went elsewhere or waited till they left.
That is a good question about the guy....
B2 (;->
I think you hit upon it. You talk with people, with respect and it works. NYC has it's own twist on the world, but when I did that in NY it worked the same way it does here, fine. I spent a lot of time all over the city (Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan) and never caught a great deal of crap for anyone. When it started to go that way, I talked with them and most of the time things worked out fine. When it did not, I picked up myself and went elsewhere or waited till they left.
That is a good question about the guy....
B2 (;->
Fred, Bill,
Yes, Perfect!!!
Just say hi and you will find that most folks are pretty decent.
Yes, Perfect!!!
Just say hi and you will find that most folks are pretty decent.
Ade-oh
Well-known
I can't say I've ever worried about this, or even give it much thought. I have three kids from 13 - 5 years old and I go to any school events I can, usually with a camera of one sort or another, and will always take a camera when we go out as a family. Nobody has ever suggested to me that I'm doing anything sinister in taking photographs of my kids (or anyone else's for that matter) and nor am I.
Are we sure there isn't a touch of paranoia creeping in here?
Are we sure there isn't a touch of paranoia creeping in here?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
It isn't. That's what I was trying to say: how are respect and courrtesy different from freedom?rover said:
But respect and courtesy are a two-way street. Once people start to demand their 'rights' without considering the rights of others, the law is often required. This is all the more impiortant when there is an actual legal right on one side -- the right to take pictures in a public place -- and an imaginary or paranoid 'right' on the other.
Of course those who exercise their actual legal right should resperct the wishes of those who have invented a non-existent 'right' -- but it's worth remembering, if push comes to shove, exactly who has the legal right.
Why should push come to shove, if courtesy is extended by the photographer? Of course it shouldn't, but some people have such axaggerated ideas of their 'right' not to be photographed (or to insist that no cameras be visible in their presence, even if no pictures are taken) that no reasonable person would imagine there could be a problem; and there are times when a smile and an apology just seem to make people more angry and paranoid.
Cheers,
R.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Thinking more about this, there's a big difference between stalking kids, and taking pictures of kids when you happen to see them. Hanging around a school playground is one thing; taking pictures of kids you meet on the street or see at a festival or on the beach (I used to live at the seaside) is another matter.
A few examples of pics of kids, past and present:
The lad is from the 1970s. I'd just got my first 21mm lens (21/4 Nikkor). I met him when I was walking into the city centre (Bristol) from Easton where I lived. He was on his own.
The girl doing the handstand is from the early 80s, probably shot with my old Leica IIIa and Elmar. As far as I recall she had a young friend with her. They were playing at the end of the street in which I lived in Easton.
The girl in the pushchair is from 2007. She loved playing peek-a-boo with the canopy to the pushchair, and had started this before I started shooting. Of course her parents made no objection: it was a good game. M8 and either 50/1.5 Sonnar or 50/1 Noctilux.
Cheers,
R.
A few examples of pics of kids, past and present:
The lad is from the 1970s. I'd just got my first 21mm lens (21/4 Nikkor). I met him when I was walking into the city centre (Bristol) from Easton where I lived. He was on his own.
The girl doing the handstand is from the early 80s, probably shot with my old Leica IIIa and Elmar. As far as I recall she had a young friend with her. They were playing at the end of the street in which I lived in Easton.
The girl in the pushchair is from 2007. She loved playing peek-a-boo with the canopy to the pushchair, and had started this before I started shooting. Of course her parents made no objection: it was a good game. M8 and either 50/1.5 Sonnar or 50/1 Noctilux.
Cheers,
R.
