Roger Hicks
Veteran
And some more...
These were all taken at the Festival de la Musique Verte at Moncontour in 2007 with the M8 and either 35/1.4 Summilux pre-aspheric or 50/1.5 Sonnar (or possibly the Noctilux for the dancing girls). I don't know where their parents were, nor did I care. Nor did my subjects.
The girl beside the tree is not what I would call a child. She'd probably have been married 150 years ago.
The girl with the home-made musical instrument was at a stand where children were being shown how to make such things -- and were being allowed to handle knives, saws, etc., under supervision if they were old enough, i.e. big enough physically to handle them safely.
The dancing girls shot is about the lowest-light picture I have ever taken hand-held: ISO 2500 equivalent, f/1.5 or maybe f/1 (my wife and I had both lenses and were swapping them), 1/2 second or so.
Cheers,
R.
These were all taken at the Festival de la Musique Verte at Moncontour in 2007 with the M8 and either 35/1.4 Summilux pre-aspheric or 50/1.5 Sonnar (or possibly the Noctilux for the dancing girls). I don't know where their parents were, nor did I care. Nor did my subjects.
The girl beside the tree is not what I would call a child. She'd probably have been married 150 years ago.
The girl with the home-made musical instrument was at a stand where children were being shown how to make such things -- and were being allowed to handle knives, saws, etc., under supervision if they were old enough, i.e. big enough physically to handle them safely.
The dancing girls shot is about the lowest-light picture I have ever taken hand-held: ISO 2500 equivalent, f/1.5 or maybe f/1 (my wife and I had both lenses and were swapping them), 1/2 second or so.
Cheers,
R.
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Terao
Kiloran
Larky said:
Forget about it. If approached, smile sweetly. Shoot film so that they can't ask you to chimp the shots to them. If a parent objects apologise and explain that you're a keen photographer - if you have a website give them your card and ask them to check you out (even better if your card has your number on it). If its their kids compliment them on how nice little Johnny is, parents love to have their kids complimented. Offer them a free studio session, just make sure you have a bright white background, overexpose, over-saturate and miss focus on every shot
I'd also be upfront in your shooting style, unfortunately hip shooting can look a bit suspect.
Roger, I think we are in 100% agreement more or less. Your tone though implies that you are willing to shove your camera into any one's face and prepared to go to blows over your "right" to do what you please. It seems just a difference in style.
And of course everything is a big grey area. Yes a middle aged guy "stalking" kids at a park will draw more attention while simply taking photographs in pursuit of his hobby than he would at a festival where yes he is photographing children, but more generally the event.
And of course everything is a big grey area. Yes a middle aged guy "stalking" kids at a park will draw more attention while simply taking photographs in pursuit of his hobby than he would at a festival where yes he is photographing children, but more generally the event.
Who is afraid of the Hell's Angels? They are puppies compared to a pack of angry moms in a school yard armed with lip stick tubes and miscellaneous other things carried in their hand bags.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
This, I fear, is a consequence of the internet. I certainly don't behave like that, and I wouldn't have thought that my tone implied that I do/would; obviously, or I'd not have said it.rover said:
But I do believe it is important to reassert rights, sometimes in vigorous terms, as a counter to those who would erode them.
The first (and indeed only) time I was challenged in NYC, I was about to start photographing children playing baseball in a dead-end alley. A busybody came over and asked why I was taking pictures. I replied that few scenes were more heartt-warmingly and classically American than children playing baseball in a back-street alley. He said, "We'd rather you didn't. Some people take pictures for the wrong reasons."
So I left. But today, I'd challenge him, asking who 'we' are and whether he thinks it is a good idea to remove images of huge chunks of everyday life. And I might just take a few pictures to show that I could.
Cheers,
Roger
Ducky
Well-known
On the other hand, whenever I post a pix ov my 10 yr old gdaughter, no matter how innocent, it get 4x time the hits as any others. I stopped doing it, please don't feed the animals
mw_uio
Well-known
"But I do believe it is important to reassert rights, sometimes in vigorous terms, as a counter to those who would erode them."
Roger I agree with this, whole heartedly. If you have the right, then one can act on it.
Mark
Roger I agree with this, whole heartedly. If you have the right, then one can act on it.
Mark
Dogman
Veteran
"... to believe a missed photo would have added measurably to the history of the 21st century...."
How true. Eggleston once wrote or said in an interview that he only takes one frame of his subjects. Asked if he worries he might have missed the picture, he said that there's always another picture.
(People never question me if I take pictures of kids or anything else. Maybe it's because I'm 6 feet 7 inches and weigh 250 pounds. Maybe it's because I have a rotten attitude and borderline personality. Maybe it's the tatoos or the 9mm in my pocket. I'm such a piece of work, no one bothers me when I take pictures. )
How true. Eggleston once wrote or said in an interview that he only takes one frame of his subjects. Asked if he worries he might have missed the picture, he said that there's always another picture.
(People never question me if I take pictures of kids or anything else. Maybe it's because I'm 6 feet 7 inches and weigh 250 pounds. Maybe it's because I have a rotten attitude and borderline personality. Maybe it's the tatoos or the 9mm in my pocket. I'm such a piece of work, no one bothers me when I take pictures.
)andrealed
Established
Pitxu said:
I don't agree. I live in Genoa, Italy. I don't even try to take pictures of child...go figure...I get hostile looks shooting dogs....but I noticed that cellphones are seen as less threatening...I can't explain why..maybe as a form of casual snapshooting...cameras are more "yes, I want to take real pictures"
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Roger Hicks said:
Cheers mate.
And I agree with all you say, and you're my best friend ever, and I want to buy you another drink!
How does this Leica thing work?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Ah, sh*t, man, I dunno. Look, iss gotta be my round, right? I mean, y'know...ClaremontPhoto said:
Cheers,
R.
bcostin
Well-known
My father's photo collection, from my own childhood, is filled with the neighborhood kids playing around and goofing off. Amusement parks with families walking around and people enjoying themselves. Life. With kids. When today's kids look back at photo albums without those sorts of pictures I think they'll resent it.
Yes, it has discouraged me from time to time. There's a little league ballfield in the park down the street. I take walks there when the weather is nice, and I usually have a camera with me. When there's a game in session I try extra hard to be as obvious and straightforward as possible.
When I'm shooting in public places I usually try to come across as genially oblivious. I smile, make eye contact and small talk, and walk around like I'm in a world of my own. Fortunately that's not difficult since it's pretty much how I always act.
I respect that parents have concerns and I'm never angry about curiosiity. OTOH, there's definitely a nasty strain of anti-male prejudice among some parents where kids are concerned. I bristle at any kind of irrational prejudice and I refuse to reinforce it by acting guilty about taking photos in public.
Yes, it has discouraged me from time to time. There's a little league ballfield in the park down the street. I take walks there when the weather is nice, and I usually have a camera with me. When there's a game in session I try extra hard to be as obvious and straightforward as possible.
When I'm shooting in public places I usually try to come across as genially oblivious. I smile, make eye contact and small talk, and walk around like I'm in a world of my own. Fortunately that's not difficult since it's pretty much how I always act.
I respect that parents have concerns and I'm never angry about curiosiity. OTOH, there's definitely a nasty strain of anti-male prejudice among some parents where kids are concerned. I bristle at any kind of irrational prejudice and I refuse to reinforce it by acting guilty about taking photos in public.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
ItsReallyDarren
That's really me
The best photograph / portrait Ive taken was of a gradeschool child in Belize. The atmosphere for taking photos there was completely different than anything Ive ever felt back at home. Even testing out a lens or camera in my own backyard garners stares from a neighbor if they happen to catch a glance from the window.
For the most part Ive avoided taking photos that included people, God forbid any with children. So far I havent encountered too much trouble or hostile people but I think I can get away with more because I lean towards the younger end of the age spectrum. I dont know how much it affects things but my best guess is that when people see me with a camera walking around they just assume Im a photo student and let me carry on my business.
But even then Im wary of pointing my camera in the general direction of people, especially children. It just doesnt feel as open or accepted to take a photograph these days. I know its proboalby a matter of time before I get approached because paranoia will get the best of someone and cause a ruckus. I feel theres no way arguing my way out of that especially when dealing with a person whos afraid of a camera. Kind of makes me think of something my dad used to day;
"Dont argue with idiots, they'll just bring you down to thier level and beat you with experience"
For the most part Ive avoided taking photos that included people, God forbid any with children. So far I havent encountered too much trouble or hostile people but I think I can get away with more because I lean towards the younger end of the age spectrum. I dont know how much it affects things but my best guess is that when people see me with a camera walking around they just assume Im a photo student and let me carry on my business.
But even then Im wary of pointing my camera in the general direction of people, especially children. It just doesnt feel as open or accepted to take a photograph these days. I know its proboalby a matter of time before I get approached because paranoia will get the best of someone and cause a ruckus. I feel theres no way arguing my way out of that especially when dealing with a person whos afraid of a camera. Kind of makes me think of something my dad used to day;
"Dont argue with idiots, they'll just bring you down to thier level and beat you with experience"
Larky
Well-known
Well, today I was walking home (it was getting dark, about 5.30) and thought sod it, if I see a shot I'll take it. I think I got some nice ones, I'll know when it comes out of the soup. I've discovered that if I'm really obvious, and tenacious, and smile and get excited, people feel it and respond in a positive way. Here's to developing a better smile.
R
RML
Guest
The more we let ourselves be constrained by perceived notions of others, the more we get relegated to shooting things others perceive as worthy. I've never been much of a people shooter but the presence of a child will not ever stop me from taking the shot I want.
So what if there is a young human being in the frame? Does that make me pervert? Does that give someone else the right to play judge and jury? If someone really wants to press charges, they can do so whenever they want and no matter what we shoot. There's always someone who disapproves of what we do. I'll take my chances that no-one actually will press charges, and if they do... well, we'll talk if that ever happens.
So what if there is a young human being in the frame? Does that make me pervert? Does that give someone else the right to play judge and jury? If someone really wants to press charges, they can do so whenever they want and no matter what we shoot. There's always someone who disapproves of what we do. I'll take my chances that no-one actually will press charges, and if they do... well, we'll talk if that ever happens.
rolleistef
Well-known
I only exceptionnaly take pictures of children because of the fear of pedophily. I don't have much scruples when street-photographying, but as a general rule, when a children is in the frame, or a groupe of children, I wait till (s)he's out. It's sad because it often makes lovely photographs, and one of my best picture was of a father helping his kid reading, on the train, one morning.
http://photophoto.bloxode.com/page,3.html
But anyway, in France, the law forbids street photography, because people are just so suspicious, and my whole blog goes against the law... hence the utility of a Rolleiflex, because it's not really a camera : it's a rolleiflex!
http://photophoto.bloxode.com/page,3.html
But anyway, in France, the law forbids street photography, because people are just so suspicious, and my whole blog goes against the law... hence the utility of a Rolleiflex, because it's not really a camera : it's a rolleiflex!
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
She asked me for a photo.
Her family sitting nearby were delighted when I made this photo for her.
Her family sitting nearby were delighted when I made this photo for her.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not really. Paris, maybe (though I'd dispute even that). In most of France -- which bears the same resemblance to Paris as most of the USA does to New York City -- no-one, or hardly anyone, minds.rolleistef said:
Cheers,
R.
