Choosing a Developing Kit

[jwicaksana]

So I think I'll bite the bullet this time, by learning to develop BW films myself. I've been converting color images to BW for too long, simply because I love black and whites, but can't stand the sloppy job my labs did.

I've looked around, and found these kits from Freestyle:

http://freestylephoto.biz/5056-Arista-Film-Processing-Kit
http://freestylephoto.biz/5055-Arista-Classic-Darkroom-Kit
http://freestylephoto.biz/5054-Arista-Premium-Darkroom-Kit

My questions are:
- Will any of these kits be sufficient to develop BW films?
- Can anybody explain the difference between Arista's Classic and Premium line? For example, their Classic and Premium Developing Tank, or Classic and Auto Load Premium Reels?
- Is there anything else I need in addition to the items included in the kit? Changing bag, film picker, etc?

Thanking you in advance for reading and answering my questions.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

For the prices they charge, you can buy better stuff for not much more money. You don't want the one reel tank the first kit offers, two reel is better because some diluted developers, like D-76 1+1 need the larger chemical capacity to fully develop film.

Here's what I recommend:

Paterson developing tank and reels. Best plastic tanks out there.

Two roll tank (comes with one reel): $30
http://freestylephoto.biz/11516-Paterson-Universal-Film-Developing-Tank-with-1-Reel?cat_id=1603

Extra reel: $10
http://freestylephoto.biz/11916-Paterson-Developing-Tank-Reel?cat_id=1603

Pateron graduate: $11. I have several of these, they're very nice.
http://freestylephoto.biz/304-Paterson-Graduate-22-oz.-600ml?cat_id=1603

Paterson thermometer: $27. Don't buy a cheap thermometer like the kits come with. This is the most important thing you'll buy. This is a good one, I have one that matches my $130 Kodak Process Thermometer perfectly. Ignore the "Color Thermometer" name, it works perfectly for black and white too. Its the best darkroom thermometer made since Kodak quit selling their mercury process thermometer.
http://freestylephoto.biz/381-Paterson-12-inch-Color-Thermometer

Film clips: $5.50 for a pack of two. You need two for each roll because you hang a clip on the bottom of the film to hold it straight to dry. Metal are better than the plastic ones the kits have.
http://freestylephoto.biz/66361-Arista-Stainless-Steel-Film-Clips-2-pack?cat_id=1603

Total price: $83. The Arista kits are $72 and have lower quality stuff. You do not need a film squeegee, they scratch film. All the stuff I recommended is top-level professional equipment that will last for many years.

 

[mrb]

I (mostly) agree w/ Chris. I use clothespins instead of film clips, saving a few cents. I spent a bit more on Hewes reels, and saved myself a lot of frustration.

 

[Bob Michaels]

Don't scrimp on quality where appropriate. But be aware of the many common household items that can be substituted for expensive photo-dedicated items.

I have used wooden clothes pins instead of Kodak stainless steel film clips for decades.

I have used a $4.99 digital kitchen timer from Wal-Mart for the last 14 years. (that may also save you dropping your iPhone in the fixer some day) It keeps time just as well as the GraLab timer I once used.

Small graduates are available from student scientific supply houses much cheaper than photo specific ones.

A larger household measuring cup is accurate enough to replace a Paterson or Kodak one.

Keep your eye on your local Craigs List and/or EBay as used darkroom equipment is dirt cheap and plentiful. tip: search EBay for Paterson misspelled Patterson (two T's) I have bought tanks dirt cheap this way as few others found them because of the misspelling.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I (mostly) agree w/ Chris. I use clothespins instead of film clips, saving a few cents. I spent a bit more on Hewes reels, and saved myself a lot of frustration.

Hewes are metal reels used in metal tanks. They are wonderful, I have 6 of them! I recommended the Paterson plastic stuff because the OP was looking at kits that used plastic reels and tanks, and the Paterson stuff is the best plastic developing tanks and reels.

 

[jwicaksana]

Thanks, everyone, for your detailed advices.
FYI I live in Indonesia, where chances to source these items locally (Craigslist) at a good price is slim, and when I order stuff from abroad, shipping and tax have to be considered.
So, after reading your posts above, I was thinking maybe I could save some money on the not so critical item, and buy the finest quality for the critical ones.
For example:
- School-grade graduates vs Paterson-brand
- Use timer that is available on my digital watch
- Office type paper clip vs Negative clip
- etc.

Regarding plastic vs stainless reel, I figured plastic would be easier to start out. If stainless steel is better in the long run, I don't mind learning with it so I don't need to re-learn in the future. 🙂
Also, will a steel reel work in a plastic tank or vice versa?

And, I'm surprised there is no mention of the changing bag and film picker/can opener yet. Any thoughts on this?

Many thanks once again, your kind responses are much appreciated.

 

[Dwig]

....\
For example:
- School-grade graduates vs Paterson-brand
- Use timer that is available on my digital watch
- Office type paper clip vs Negative clip
- etc.
...

I worked for years using regular kitchen measuring cups/graduates. I had a separate set in the darkroom, of course.

Also, watch out using regular "office" clips. Regular steel rusts, which can lead to staining. If you use such things watch them carefully, replacing them as soon and the slightest rust appears.

Stainless steel reels are both the worst and the best to use. Cheep stainless steel reels are horrid. They become bent out of shape (they usually leave the factory slightly askew) with the slightest mishandling becoming almost impossible to load. Quality stainless steel reels, on the other hand, are the best. Good plastic (e.g. Paterson, ...) are very good but require more chemistry per reel (generally 10oz vs 8oz with stainless) and do require periodic intensive cleaning to remove scale.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Thanks, everyone, for your detailed advices.
FYI I live in Indonesia, where chances to source these items locally (Craigslist) at a good price is slim, and when I order stuff from abroad, shipping and tax have to be considered.
So, after reading your posts above, I was thinking maybe I could save some money on the not so critical item, and buy the finest quality for the critical ones.
For example:
- School-grade graduates vs Paterson-brand
- Use timer that is available on my digital watch
- Office type paper clip vs Negative clip
- etc.

Regarding plastic vs stainless reel, I figured plastic would be easier to start out. If stainless steel is better in the long run, I don't mind learning with it so I don't need to re-learn in the future. 🙂
Also, will a steel reel work in a plastic tank or vice versa?

And, I'm surprised there is no mention of the changing bag and film picker/can opener yet. Any thoughts on this?

Many thanks once again, your kind responses are much appreciated.

Steel reels will work in any steel tank (the reels and tanks are the same size no matter who makes them) but plastic reels only work in tanks made by the reel's manufacturer, and metal reels will not work in plastic tanks.

You will need a changing bag. I've found it is almost impossible to make a room in your house or apartment completely light tight. There is always a tiny bit leaking in around door frames. A changing bag gives you a totally light tight place to load the film on the reels. They're about $25 and Freestyle sells them too.

You'll need a can opener to pop open the 35mm film cartridge.

 

[wintoid]

Steel reels will work in any steel tank (the reels and tanks are the same size no matter who makes them) but plastic reels only work in tanks made by the reel's manufacturer, and metal reels will not work in plastic tanks.

Actually Hewes do also make their SS reel in a size that works in a Paterson plastic tank. I have one, but never use it as I prefer my Kindermann tank.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Actually Hewes do also make their SS reel in a size that works in a Paterson plastic tank. I have one, but never use it as I prefer my Kindermann tank.

Do they? That's cool, I have never seen them available in the USA. I know Jobo used to make metal reels that fit their plastic tanks too.

 

[iuseruby]

Thanks, everyone, for your detailed advices.
FYI I live in Indonesia, where chances to source these items locally (Craigslist) at a good price is slim, and when I order stuff from abroad, shipping and tax have to be considered.
So, after reading your posts above, I was thinking maybe I could save some money on the not so critical item, and buy the finest quality for the critical ones.

I've recently solved same problem. Finally I bought following stuff:
* Paterson tank
* Big changing bag
* Stainless steel thermometer
* Paterson clip

It's cost me about $70 without shipping

I also using kitchen measuring cups and watch with timer, already have its at home.

 

[mfogiel]

I think, that if you want to commit to film, you should skip second rate solutions, and get to the core of things.
For 35mm, ideally, you should buy:
- 4 Hewes metal reels
- a metal tank for 4 35mm reels with a rod and plasctic cap (through which you pour in and out the chemicals)
3 1 liter measuring beakers
a lab thermometer
a 50ml and 2 100ml graduated beakers
8 stainless steel clips, out of which at least 4 with lead
a beer opener
shool scissors with rounded tips
rubber gloves
a kitchen timer
You might also need a funnel sometimes, if you will mix developers from powder.

The Hewes reels are the easiest to load by a sea mile, and the stainless tank contains only 900ml of liquid (you save on chemicals and pollution), and is less likely to cause streaking than plastic ones.
The 50ml beaker is useful for high dilution liquid developers.
The 100 ml beaker is enough for liquid fixer
The other 100 ml beaker will be useful for other types of developers - if you know you will be using D76 or Xtol, get a 500ml one instead.
Mark the beakers with red , blue and white tape - red=developer, blue=fixer, white=photo flo. Never mix them up, it will help you to avoid errors.
Don't use any type of stop bath, acid, water or otherwise: develop, fix (always use fresh fixer), wash, rinse in photo flo solution, and dry, without ever using any squeege or your fingers to swipe the film.
Always use demineralised water for the developer and final photo flo bath.
Dilute the fixer in tap water. Keep all the process within 2 degrees Celsius, including the wash under running tap water.
Add some clear alcohol to the photo flo solution (say, 3-5% of total volume), and after you hang the films, pour the solution over the films. Grab the films at the bottom, and pull them away from vertical for a minute, this will make the excess liquid to flow away along the edges.
Dry in a place with little dust and little air movement.

 

[wintoid]

Do they? That's cool, I have never seen them available in the USA. I know Jobo used to make metal reels that fit their plastic tanks too.

Yeah the plastic Paterson tube that goes up the middle of the plastic reel has to be threaded through the SS Hewes reel. It works well with the twizzler, but I like to invert, and I have always had leak problems when inverting Paterson tanks (and yes I know about burping them etc).

I agree with Marek. Go straight to the best, which means stainless steel all over, and learn how to do it. Believe me, I am cack-handed. If I can do it, anyone can. Just a question of practice. Once learned, you don't have to worry about wet reels ever again.

 

[iuseruby]

The Hewes reels are the easiest to load by a sea mile

I've read somewhere opposite thing about Hewes tank. That's why I've chose Paterson plastic tank.

 

[jwicaksana]

Thank you all for joining in this discussion, it has been very informative for me. I have discussed this with fellow photographers in my area, and turns out the only thing I really need to source online is the developing tank. I have decided to go with plastic tank for my first tryout, still need to read more on Jobo vs Paterson, feel free also to comment on this.

I think, that if you want to commit to film, you should skip second rate solutions, and get to the core of things.
For 35mm, ideally, you should buy:
- 4 Hewes metal reels
- a metal tank for 4 35mm reels with a rod and plasctic cap (through which you pour in and out the chemicals)
3 1 liter measuring beakers
a lab thermometer
a 50ml and 2 100ml graduated beakers
8 stainless steel clips, out of which at least 4 with lead
a beer opener
shool scissors with rounded tips
rubber gloves
a kitchen timer
You might also need a funnel sometimes, if you will mix developers from powder.

The Hewes reels are the easiest to load by a sea mile, and the stainless tank contains only 900ml of liquid (you save on chemicals and pollution), and is less likely to cause streaking than plastic ones.
The 50ml beaker is useful for high dilution liquid developers.
The 100 ml beaker is enough for liquid fixer
The other 100 ml beaker will be useful for other types of developers - if you know you will be using D76 or Xtol, get a 500ml one instead.
Mark the beakers with red , blue and white tape - red=developer, blue=fixer, white=photo flo. Never mix them up, it will help you to avoid errors.
Don't use any type of stop bath, acid, water or otherwise: develop, fix (always use fresh fixer), wash, rinse in photo flo solution, and dry, without ever using any squeege or your fingers to swipe the film.
Always use demineralised water for the developer and final photo flo bath.
Dilute the fixer in tap water. Keep all the process within 2 degrees Celsius, including the wash under running tap water.
Add some clear alcohol to the photo flo solution (say, 3-5% of total volume), and after you hang the films, pour the solution over the films. Grab the films at the bottom, and pull them away from vertical for a minute, this will make the excess liquid to flow away along the edges.
Dry in a place with little dust and little air movement.

Dear Sir, your detailed instruction regarding beakers and developing process is definitely helpful, thank you very much for that. 😀

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Thank you all for joining in this discussion, it has been very informative for me. I have discussed this with fellow photographers in my area, and turns out the only thing I really need to source online is the developing tank. I have decided to go with plastic tank for my first tryout, still need to read more on Jobo vs Paterson, feel free also to comment on this.



Dear Sir, your detailed instruction regarding beakers and developing process is definitely helpful, thank you very much for that. 😀

Jobo tanks are made to use in their rotary processor machines. They're not well suited to hand processing.

 

[slappyfin3]

If you live in Indonesia I think it would save you a lot of trouble to just get everything in one package and then have it shipped to you since you don't have the flexibility of ordering things part-by-part on ebay as shipping will cost a bomb once you add everything up. You can't go wrong with the classic or premium kit. If you're going to do a digital darkroom where you develop and then scan, the classic kit will do. If you have an enlarger and can make prints then you'll want the classic.

You pay a small convenience for the fact that everything's put together nicely and you won't have to source measuring cups/thermometers on your own but I think it's worth it if you're starting out.

 

[Brian Puccio]

Thank you all for joining in this discussion, it has been very informative for me. I have discussed this with fellow photographers in my area, and turns out the only thing I really need to source online is the developing tank. I have decided to go with plastic tank for my first tryout, still need to read more on Jobo vs Paterson, feel free also to comment on this.

I'm certain that things like graduated cylinders and storage bottles (so you don't have to dispose of your chemicals after starting to use them, but rather save them for next weekend) can be acquired locally from any chemical supply store. That way you only have to pay the exorbitant shipping prices on things you cannot source locally. A 100mL grad cyl is a 100mL grad cyl!

Anything you cannot get locally (e.g., leader retriever, development tank, etc), get all in one go, the nicest you can afford, from an online retailer.

I have a plastic Paterson tank. I used metal reels the other day for the first time, I think I'm going to switch, FWIW.

 

[jwicaksana]

If you live in Indonesia I think it would save you a lot of trouble to just get everything in one package and then have it shipped to you since you don't have the flexibility of ordering things part-by-part on ebay as shipping will cost a bomb once you add everything up. You can't go wrong with the classic or premium kit. If you're going to do a digital darkroom where you develop and then scan, the classic kit will do. If you have an enlarger and can make prints then you'll want the classic.

You pay a small convenience for the fact that everything's put together nicely and you won't have to source measuring cups/thermometers on your own but I think it's worth it if you're starting out.

I'm certain that things like graduated cylinders and storage bottles (so you don't have to dispose of your chemicals after starting to use them, but rather save them for next weekend) can be acquired locally from any chemical supply store. That way you only have to pay the exorbitant shipping prices on things you cannot source locally. A 100mL grad cyl is a 100mL grad cyl!

Anything you cannot get locally (e.g., leader retriever, development tank, etc), get all in one go, the nicest you can afford, from an online retailer.

I have a plastic Paterson tank. I used metal reels the other day for the first time, I think I'm going to switch, FWIW.

Thanks for you tips. Sadly though, a friend of mine who placed an order to Freestyle using the FIMS option haven't received the items he ordered for more than a month. I have tried to find local sources for developing kits, and there is one store that sells AP plastic tank and two reels kit. Anyone can tell me about AP tanks in terms of build quality and ease of loading? I would want to buy the best (Hewes reels, etc), but knowing myself, a month or more wait would make me dizzy. So I think it's best that I stick with local, practical stuff, and take it from there. This store also sells D76 and Acifix, which is what I will use for my starter kit.

Leader retriever, well I have made it a habit to rewind and leave a little outside, so it's easier. I think I could also trim the film and make cut in the corners outside the changing bag without affecting the first frames, is that correct?

Thank you very much, this thread has been wonderfully helpful.

 

[iamzip]

Bottles for storing the chemicals.