Patruck92
Newbie
Hello everybody,
I've been using a Zorki C/S for the last 5-6 months and I'm quite happy with it; the only think I don't really like is the lens, a collapsible Industar 22, whose compact-ness is impressive, but is a quite slow lens (f/3,5) and can't be closed over f/16. As the Industar 61 is quite similar, I thought of buying a Jupiter 8, and I found the prices pretty high for old russian lenses.
Nevertheless, I noticed that almost every M39 lens was also made for Kiev-Contax bayonet, and that Kiev lenses costed 1/2 than their Zorki-Fed brothers.
I found a good Kiev seller in ebay, which has got many of them for 14-18 euros plus 15 shipping. They come with the lens I wanted, in most cases (J8), but... which may I choose?
Which are the most reliable models (I heard reliability is one of the worst points in Kievs)? There are 60s, 70s ones and even some 50s which actually cost more.
Also I can choose between the one with the exposure meter and the ones without it: does it work well or (also after 30 years) it would only be some extra weight?
I hope there aren't too many questions...
Thanks to everyone
I've been using a Zorki C/S for the last 5-6 months and I'm quite happy with it; the only think I don't really like is the lens, a collapsible Industar 22, whose compact-ness is impressive, but is a quite slow lens (f/3,5) and can't be closed over f/16. As the Industar 61 is quite similar, I thought of buying a Jupiter 8, and I found the prices pretty high for old russian lenses.
Nevertheless, I noticed that almost every M39 lens was also made for Kiev-Contax bayonet, and that Kiev lenses costed 1/2 than their Zorki-Fed brothers.
I found a good Kiev seller in ebay, which has got many of them for 14-18 euros plus 15 shipping. They come with the lens I wanted, in most cases (J8), but... which may I choose?
Which are the most reliable models (I heard reliability is one of the worst points in Kievs)? There are 60s, 70s ones and even some 50s which actually cost more.
Also I can choose between the one with the exposure meter and the ones without it: does it work well or (also after 30 years) it would only be some extra weight?
I hope there aren't too many questions...
Thanks to everyone
newspaperguy
Well-known
My vote: Kiev II, big 'foot' (no meter)
Lens: J-8M 50/2or the Helios 103 53/1.8
Lens: J-8M 50/2or the Helios 103 53/1.8
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Welcome to the forum! We had pretty much the same question just a couple of weeks ago: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86651
You are right that Contax mount lenses tend to be cheaper than LTM. Also, FSU Leica copies didn't use the exact same focus specifications as the originals, so mixing bodies and lenses can be more hit-or-miss. (In Contax-land, you run into a similar problem with Nikon lenses, but not with the cheap and plentiful Jupiters. Just don't expect a Jupiter 12 to fit a postwar Contax body, it won't.)
You are right that Contax mount lenses tend to be cheaper than LTM. Also, FSU Leica copies didn't use the exact same focus specifications as the originals, so mixing bodies and lenses can be more hit-or-miss. (In Contax-land, you run into a similar problem with Nikon lenses, but not with the cheap and plentiful Jupiters. Just don't expect a Jupiter 12 to fit a postwar Contax body, it won't.)
Paul T.
Veteran
Probably the best bet is to look through the ones in the shop, and just go for one that works best!
I got a 70s Kiev from Krakow, went throught several and this one worked perfectly. But, if there are several there that work well, the pre 1960s 4a, or the earlier IIa and II are genreally better made, with the earliet cameras being the very best.
Pretty much all the 50mm lenses are good (I"m not a Jupiter 12 fan) including the early Jupiter 8, the later 8m, and the Helios.
Overally, if you can get a 50s camera and lens for the same money, they're acknolwedged as better-made and more valuable - but there's no reason a 70s one, if working ok, won't take good photos. I had wonderful results with my 70s 4a and Jupiter 8m.
Most people these days prefer the meter-less version, one less thing to go wrong.
Good luck!
Camerquest has a gopd background article: http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm
I got a 70s Kiev from Krakow, went throught several and this one worked perfectly. But, if there are several there that work well, the pre 1960s 4a, or the earlier IIa and II are genreally better made, with the earliet cameras being the very best.
Pretty much all the 50mm lenses are good (I"m not a Jupiter 12 fan) including the early Jupiter 8, the later 8m, and the Helios.
Overally, if you can get a 50s camera and lens for the same money, they're acknolwedged as better-made and more valuable - but there's no reason a 70s one, if working ok, won't take good photos. I had wonderful results with my 70s 4a and Jupiter 8m.
Most people these days prefer the meter-less version, one less thing to go wrong.
Good luck!
Camerquest has a gopd background article: http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/zconrfKiev.htm
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Any Kiev RF camera that is known to be problem free is obviously a good buy.
Best quality/price ratio IMHO are the pre 1973 Kiev 4 and 4a.
I am in the minority that finds the (working) meter on the Kiev 4 a very useful addition and I prefer its rewind knob over the one on the Kiev 4a.
Best quality/price ratio IMHO are the pre 1973 Kiev 4 and 4a.
I am in the minority that finds the (working) meter on the Kiev 4 a very useful addition and I prefer its rewind knob over the one on the Kiev 4a.
Patruck92
Newbie
Thanks to all af you.
Now there's a little update: I've noticed 50s cameras are quite more expensive than 60s and 70s ones. There are III and IIs for 50-55 euros plus shipping, which is a little out of budget, also for a "As is" auction.
I've seen this by now:
http://cgi.ebay.it/Great-KIEV-4A-fr...ViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item4cee2a360a
Probably is the best-looking of these cameras. It comes with the Jupiter 8 lens, and from the production numbers, it seems it was its original lens (In other cameras the serials were rarely matching). Also, it's from 1961, so the quality should be better than the more recent ones.
Now there's a little update: I've noticed 50s cameras are quite more expensive than 60s and 70s ones. There are III and IIs for 50-55 euros plus shipping, which is a little out of budget, also for a "As is" auction.
I've seen this by now:
http://cgi.ebay.it/Great-KIEV-4A-fr...ViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item4cee2a360a
Probably is the best-looking of these cameras. It comes with the Jupiter 8 lens, and from the production numbers, it seems it was its original lens (In other cameras the serials were rarely matching). Also, it's from 1961, so the quality should be better than the more recent ones.
Paul T.
Veteran
Apologies, I misread your post and thought you said you'd found a good seller, rather than "a good ebay seller." THey're different things. I would check round here for recommended sellers. I don't particularly like the look of that listing. WHy pay out $25, when the seller won't even check the camera is working, charges $25 for shipping and won't offer refunds? Better to pay $50 for one that you know works.
I rate alexphoto (now called, I think, alex-photo-goods). I also bought a Kiev II from ruscamera which they claimed was was CLA'd and, incredibly, it seemed to be, working well for years, until I sold it.
I rate alexphoto (now called, I think, alex-photo-goods). I also bought a Kiev II from ruscamera which they claimed was was CLA'd and, incredibly, it seemed to be, working well for years, until I sold it.
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batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I have to agree with Paul there. Not a particularly trustworthy listing.
Also -- getting back to your original motivation -- if you're willing to buy from these Eastern European sellers, why not get a J-8 for LTM? I don't have experience with any of those sellers but I see several J-8s at decent prices with money back guarantee (which I wouldn't really trust, either) and/or very complete descriptions.
Heck, you could even pick up a camera with a J-8 attached and get a better deal this way. If indeed you are disciplined enough to sell the body afterwards...
Don't get me wrong, if you want to get into Contax/Kiev, I'll be the last person to stop you
Just trying to list your options.
Also -- getting back to your original motivation -- if you're willing to buy from these Eastern European sellers, why not get a J-8 for LTM? I don't have experience with any of those sellers but I see several J-8s at decent prices with money back guarantee (which I wouldn't really trust, either) and/or very complete descriptions.
Heck, you could even pick up a camera with a J-8 attached and get a better deal this way. If indeed you are disciplined enough to sell the body afterwards...
Don't get me wrong, if you want to get into Contax/Kiev, I'll be the last person to stop you
Just trying to list your options.Patruck92
Newbie
You're right. I've checked Alex-photo and actually auctions look much more "serious" without that "Amazing" writing and blurry pictures.
Now I can choose from 2 (same price): A '77 Kiev 4AM in very good cosmetic conditions and completely working condition
or a '57 IIIa in good cosmetic conditions and well working (except the Lightmeter).
early models' quality vs AM model's essentiality?
Again, thanks to everyone
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi, my votes for the Kiev without the meter and with J-8 on it. In the UK you can pick them up with the lens labelled in English, meaning TOE of London imported them.
But, they are going to be old cameras and, since they were seen as bargains at the time, may well have been handled and treated differently from (say) a Contax in the 30's. So I would budget for a complete service or at least a check over. Regardless of what the seller says. Bitter experience tells me that a camera can be running nicely one minute and then fail the next. And I don't just mean Kievs...
But once bought, serviced etc, you'll love it.
Regards, David
But, they are going to be old cameras and, since they were seen as bargains at the time, may well have been handled and treated differently from (say) a Contax in the 30's. So I would budget for a complete service or at least a check over. Regardless of what the seller says. Bitter experience tells me that a camera can be running nicely one minute and then fail the next. And I don't just mean Kievs...
But once bought, serviced etc, you'll love it.
Regards, David
Ducky
Well-known
I'm happy with my 4am with the Helios 103. Got it from fedka.