Skiff
Well-known
Can you prove this by numbers?
I've not seen such evidence.
And distributors and manufacturers have told me at last Photokina that the higher end models are also in this sales decline.
CIPA 2014 data published today
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Can you prove this by numbers?
I've not seen such evidence.
And distributors and manufacturers have told me at last Photokina that the higher end models are also in this sales decline.
Skiff
Well-known
Since 2007 people on the internet are saying that the F6 is not produced anymore.
And since 2007 all 2-3 years journalists from the photo press are visiting the Sendai factory, where all professional Nikon cameras, flashes and some other gear is made.
And every time they see and report that the F6 is in production there.
There has never been any statement from Nikon that the F6 is discontinued. It is listed on their website as a camera in production. You can buy it. The distributors here get permanently new cameras from Japan.
Fact is: There is no evidence at all that the F6 production is stopped.
That is wrong.
So far more than 35,000 F6 has been made. A friend of mine recently bought a new one with a serial number above 35,000.
Mine has a number above 31,000.
The S3 production has been a fraction of that (5000 if I remember right).
Skiff
Well-known
You get much better data here at the original source:
http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html
That is wrong. The graph from Mayflower is simply wrong in this respect!!
In 2004 more than 11 million film cameras have been sold.
In 2005 almost 6 million film cameras.
In 2006 2 million film cameras (all official CIPA data that was published at that time).
DSLR production decline in 2013: - 19,1 %
DSLR production decline in 2014: - 24,3 %.
The complete digital camera sales are only 1/3 of the level of 2010.
The market lost 2/3 (!!) of its volume in only 4 years.
That is a very heavy crash.
And the important thing: This trend is continuing. No signs at all for a levelling out.
At the end of 2015 the digital camera sales will be significantly lower compared to the film camera sales at the end of the 90ies.
Skiff
Well-known
+1.
They are the best. Period.
http://www.kienzle-phototechnik.de/
They make the enlarger due to your specifications if you want.
There is nothing that they cannot do.
They really do little miracles. Awesome company. German engineering at its best.
Concerning enlargers: He just can contact Kienzle or Kaiser
http://www.kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/2_1_sortiment.asp?w=19
Both are speaking English and operate internationally.
In Europe and especially in Germany you can get all you need new in excellent quality.
Getting in direct contact is most best.
Freestyle, B&H, Adorama often don't really care......sadly.
It looks like the Americans need new companies with a new, fresh spirit.
There is a big market gap in North America for such customer and service orientated film companies.
James24
Well-known
No it's not. Fred is quite right.
SP production 22,348
S3 production 14,310 (Including 2000 Olympic versions)
(source: Rotoloni)
Total around 36,000 which is very similar to F6 production.
Spanik
Well-known
A nice boost to analog would be an excellent, fast and affordable scanner that can swallow any format up to 4x5. That and affordable 400 iso slide film is what keeps me from shooting more.
Keeping old cameras alive wouldn't be a big issue if original drawings were available. It might have been a problem making a single gear in the '70s but with cnc wire erosion this is now just an hour work. Likewise other fast prototyping techniques can be put into action. But it only can work if original drawings are available.
Keeping old cameras alive wouldn't be a big issue if original drawings were available. It might have been a problem making a single gear in the '70s but with cnc wire erosion this is now just an hour work. Likewise other fast prototyping techniques can be put into action. But it only can work if original drawings are available.
daveleo
what?
Fine, so film camera sales have been "virtually non-existent since 2006" is what you are saying (I said "2004" per that graph)
In fact, sales of film cameras have been so statistically irrelevant (sp?) that CIPA stop compiling film camera sales data in 2008.
But, actually, what are we discussing? ..... picky picky picky data issues.
We can all read the same data, and put our own spin on it, and believe whatever we desire to believe, you know.
jsrockit
Moderator
Really? Any links to camera companies saying there is a boom (in propaganda form)?
sig
Well-known
Digital cameras 'killed' film camera sales, doubt it is film cameras that 'kills' the digital camera sales now.... but we can hope so 😀
I saw F6 serial numbers in the 36xxx range around 3 or so years ago in Tokyo. I have yet to see an F6 serial number starting with 4xxxx, so I suspect that while the F6 is officially still in production, Nikon hasn't been making very many lately.
Plus 10,000 reissue S3s.
Hsg
who dares wins
The smartphone market expansion was the cause... https://www.flickr.com/cameras
willie_901
Veteran
I predict the mantra of "digital camera bodies are merely short-term products that must be replaced often" will be completely discounted in the not too distant future.
Much of the buy-use-discard... then repeat... behavior was more related to the rapid rate technological change and performance improvements rather than the frail technologies and low-grade build quality.
Now the rate of significant data stream improvement has leveled off. A high quality DSLR body has the same limitation as a film camera - namely the shutter life. Brand loyalty and lens curation/preferences aside, there are dozens of high-quality bodies in all sensor surface area categories with similar IQ capabilities.
A friend bought every new generation pro-sumer Nikon DSLR from the D100 to the D700 in late 2008. Everytime a new Nikon body was released he would say, "I really can't think of a reason to upgrade". And I would reply "You're right... there isn't". My friend always has his D700 in his car. He flies recreationally and it goes on every flight. He takes it on small boats and even tucks in golf carts when he plays. The camera has worked perfectly since 2008.
I realize one anecdote is extremely incomplete evidence. Yet except for restlessness, there is no compelling reason to contemporary upgrade digital camera bodies at the pace enjoyed by camera companies during the first decade of the 21st century.
For many non-casual photographers, radical improvements in alternate sensor technologies would start the upgrade cycle all over again. Eric Fossum's "Quanta Image Sensor" (QIS) is just one potential path to revolutionary change.
Much of the buy-use-discard... then repeat... behavior was more related to the rapid rate technological change and performance improvements rather than the frail technologies and low-grade build quality.
Now the rate of significant data stream improvement has leveled off. A high quality DSLR body has the same limitation as a film camera - namely the shutter life. Brand loyalty and lens curation/preferences aside, there are dozens of high-quality bodies in all sensor surface area categories with similar IQ capabilities.
A friend bought every new generation pro-sumer Nikon DSLR from the D100 to the D700 in late 2008. Everytime a new Nikon body was released he would say, "I really can't think of a reason to upgrade". And I would reply "You're right... there isn't". My friend always has his D700 in his car. He flies recreationally and it goes on every flight. He takes it on small boats and even tucks in golf carts when he plays. The camera has worked perfectly since 2008.
I realize one anecdote is extremely incomplete evidence. Yet except for restlessness, there is no compelling reason to contemporary upgrade digital camera bodies at the pace enjoyed by camera companies during the first decade of the 21st century.
For many non-casual photographers, radical improvements in alternate sensor technologies would start the upgrade cycle all over again. Eric Fossum's "Quanta Image Sensor" (QIS) is just one potential path to revolutionary change.
jsrockit
Moderator
I get it... hope is all they may have at this point. If I was a hardcore film user, I may be looking for any light I could possibly find as well. I just hope they continue to make something that allows us to make still photos.
Ranchu
Veteran
Well, hope...and film. You guys should look into that 32 mp cell phone, maybe they'll make zooms for it.
😀
But...aren't you buying a film camera for your next project, photomoof? I assume you already have a cell phone and the dslr you mentioned?
😉
😀
But...aren't you buying a film camera for your next project, photomoof? I assume you already have a cell phone and the dslr you mentioned?
😉
jsrockit
Moderator
Films awesome... but if digital fits what you want to accomplish more, then why not? It's all photography. I'll take the phone and use that too. Whatever tool works for what I want to do.
Ranchu
Veteran
I'm not saying not. Why not? You might want to buy a dslr too though, so they don't stop making them.
🙂
🙂
Ranchu
Veteran
I don't get the attraction myself. But hey.
irq506
just curious
If film were to be reintroduced, it would gain more foothold if it was ecologically sound, and was a genuine step forward technologically, e.g.; lower grain higher speed.
I'd love to know what happened to the idea that was floated 20 years ago of film that once exposed couldn't be re exposed i.e.; no film processing.
But back to the topic; I'm not at all surprised at this "revelation" about the camera market. Those figures from 2003-2006 were when digital photography was exiting pro end gear and making it's debut into consumer markets, it was a surge, the tech is fast moving faster than film tech and so now we are seeing the evolutionary process of that.
Personally I still prefer the form factor of cameras to cellphones but there's no doubt about it, cellphone connectivity is where it's at for distributed visuals. I commend Sony Samsung and a few others for attempting to bridge the gap.
I'd love to know what happened to the idea that was floated 20 years ago of film that once exposed couldn't be re exposed i.e.; no film processing.
But back to the topic; I'm not at all surprised at this "revelation" about the camera market. Those figures from 2003-2006 were when digital photography was exiting pro end gear and making it's debut into consumer markets, it was a surge, the tech is fast moving faster than film tech and so now we are seeing the evolutionary process of that.
Personally I still prefer the form factor of cameras to cellphones but there's no doubt about it, cellphone connectivity is where it's at for distributed visuals. I commend Sony Samsung and a few others for attempting to bridge the gap.
VertovSvilova
Well-known
I think it's irresponsible to say that Freestyle "often don't really care." Freestyle has been a California icon for decades. It is one of the biggest promoters of film use and even has a separate department for educators (who can sign in on the 'educators lounge' for help and resources, and students can get their class supply lists.) The University of California system, The California State University system, and the California Community College system teach film based classes in their photo and art departments. Freestyle has even donated money to those programs through their promotional proceeds. And Freestyle also has customers from all over the globe....
And they do carry Kaiser enlargers. The difficulty with Kienzle is they don't have an importer/distributorship, they don't have support and service in the US, and they are high priced and are therefore a 'specialty' item in that respect. It's not going to be a small investment to be importing Kienzle. It's not easy to be an importer where all sorts of logistics are involved. It's not about "not caring." Whereas Kaiser has established themselves with an official US importer/distributor, the MAC Group (the MAC Group is also how we get Novoflex here, too.)
btw, there is not a "big market gap in North America" in respect to film use and consumption. Film is alive and well here.......
Skiff
Well-known
O.k., then even much more SP and S3.
Would be more a reason for new film cameras in the future, if they even sold so much collector cameras......😉.
But I am convinced new film cameras will not be such old style RF cams.
It will be cameras for real film users, who want to shoot with their cameras.
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