CIPA data for 2020: Digital Camera Sales Collapse accelerated

[Pál_K]

...
And if I look at my country here: All drugstore chain shops are offering films, C41, E6 and BW processing and prints. So about 3,500 local shops for film photographers.
So not much has really changed here in the last 15 years.
...

Quite the opposite situation exists here.

15 years ago, larger drugstore chains definitely sold 35mm and even Polaroid film. They had Fuji machines to develop and make prints within an hour. Chemicals were replenished daily. Even the larger supermarkets, where you could buy anything from food to furniture, offered film, developing, and printing. At its best, some of the people operating the machines to produce prints actually did a good job in making adjustments for a good print.

Anyway, those services disappeared and perhaps 10 years ago the last of them were gone - if you wanted to develop or print from film, your choice was either a dedicated lab or doing it yourself. That is the situation here today.

Some film is still sold in these stores and I track how often it sells. One very large store, after about a week, sold the single box of Kodak Gold 200 which was for sale. A few days later three boxes of Kodak Ultramax 400 appeared, 3 rolls per box. Those boxes have been there about a week.

I do believe there is renewed interest in film, but I doubt film sales will ever be even 5% of what they were in 2001. I just hope there is enough interest so that Kodak, Ilford, Fuji, and the rest keep making film.

 

[joe bosak]

No big surprise, but the latest cipa figures (up to May) show higher sales in 2021 than 2020. They are not back to 2019 levels, and ILCs have recovered a bit more than fixed.

 

[jsrockit]

No big surprise, but the latest cipa figures (up to May) show higher sales in 2021 than 2020. They are not back to 2019 levels, and ILCs have recovered a bit more than fixed.

And now camera stores don’t have stock to sell…

 

[David Hughes]

The cameras in phones are getting better and better but have been very good for a long, long time. And they are easy to use.

I have a new-ish digital camera, in the box was a simple basic guide of about 100 pages and a really serious guide as a pdf of about 350 pages. So 450 pages in all.

If I could master that lot the digital camera would be superior in every way. OTOH, for what 99.9% of the users want, the phone is more than adequate and the settings are simple and obvious. And you can get decent sized prints from their 8 and more megapixels.

It would be interesting to come up with a factor relating to instructions and their usability and sales could be plotted against them on a simple graph...


Regards, David

 

[f.hayek]

I have a new-ish digital camera, in the box was a simple basic guide of about 100 pages and a really serious guide as a pdf of about 350 pages. So 450 pages in all.

Hence the perennial appeal of the Leica M and Ricoh GR series.

 

[David Hughes]

Hence the perennial appeal of the Leica M and Ricoh GR series.

There's a lot of appeal to the Leica M but are there many sales considering how many have all those thousands free to buy a single digital M body and 3 lenses new?

Even just three f/2 lenses and a body are beyond most people.

Mentioning Leica raises an interesting point; there are many Leica and Panasonic cameras that seem to be nearly identical. I have often wondered why the Panasonc couldn't be as they are (a typical compact zoom) and the Leica version stripped down to an enthusiasts compact...

That means leaving out all the frills and making a simple and straight forward compact with the same lens and basic spec.


Regards, David

 

[f.hayek]

There's a lot of appeal to the Leica M but are there many sales considering how many have all those thousands free to buy a single digital M body and 3 lenses new?

New? You're right.

Second hand copies of older models paired with superb Voigtländers?
About the cost of a new Nikon or Canon.

 

[jsrockit]

Hence the perennial appeal of the Leica M and Ricoh GR series.

I would imagine the manuals are still big… at least for the Ricoh.

 

[David Hughes]

I would imagine the manuals are still big… at least for the Ricoh.

They never mention them in the reviews; if I had to read 450 pages before I'd started the review I tell everyone what a PITA it was...

Then I wonder if a sales rep. demonstrates the camera and the reviewer takes notes.

Regards, David

 

[Dralowid]

Are all 450 pages in English? I have never learnt a lot from the Portuguese pages but then I can't speak Portuguese. (Apologies to any reading this for whom Portuguese is their language)

Sometimes it can be a a bit of letdown, a manual like a brick but only 10 pages per language.

 

[joe bosak]

This is making feel I really should make more effort to read the manuals for some of my digital cameras 🙂

 

[David Hughes]

Are all 450 pages in English? I have never learnt a lot from the Portuguese pages but then I can't speak Portuguese. (Apologies to any reading this for whom Portuguese is their language)

Sometimes it can be a a bit of letdown, a manual like a brick but only 10 pages per language.

Every one of them is in English, or rather, the American version of it by that I mean the spelling. It ought to be possible to change it to English as it's a pdf but there you are...

The worst part is that the printed manual refers you to the PDF and then you have to guess the right word to search for or get dozens, if not hundreds of them. The worse is/was "display" as it is used as a verb over and over again and you might want it as a noun...

Regards, David

PS 10 pages ought to be enough to cover a serious camera designed for photographers.

 

[jsrockit]

I’ve always viewed manuals as documents that covers every little thing a camera can do and how to do it… and you only refer to the section you need to refer to. I would never, ever read the whole manual … there simply is no need to.

 

[Pál_K]

I’ve always viewed manuals as documents that covers every little thing a camera can do and how to do it… and you only refer to the section you need to refer to. I would never, ever read the whole manual … there simply is no need to.

Yes, if the manual is well organized. The Pentax K10D manual is an example where it’s possible to find something quickly and everything you need to know about it is in one place. The X-Pro1 manual has me flipping pages all over the place.

For film cameras, especially pre-1990’s, it’s fun to read the whole manual because there really aren’t that many functions / knobs / levers and it’s easy to grasp the full functionality of the camera.

 

[jsrockit]

Yes, if the manual is well organized. The Pentax K10D manual is an example where it’s possible to find something quickly and everything you need to know about it is in one place. The X-Pro1 manual has me flipping pages all over the place.

The easiest way to find something in a manual in 2021 is to do a google search... especially for Fujifilm.

For film cameras, especially pre-1990’s, it’s fun to read the whole manual because there really aren’t that many functions / knobs / levers and it’s easy to grasp the full functionality of the camera.

I would find that boring...

 

[Pál_K]

The easiest way to find something in a manual in 2021 is to do a google search... especially for Fujifilm.



I would find that boring...

I have online versions of manuals as well and I often do a search within a .pdf - however, that is still no substitute for having information on a topic in one place where it can be read without having to hop back and forth. A well organized manual such as that for the K10D indicates those who wrote the manual likely communicated well with each other and had focus on the topic - resulting in that topic being explained well. A disjointed manual gives me the impression the team members didn’t collaborate very well and possibly some aspect of a function or operation has not been explained well.

As for boring - that’s a subjective matter. I have always loved reading and books. As an engineer, I love a well written manual. The manual for the Canon EF of 1973 is enjoyable to me because I like the descriptions of things like the combined self-timer/stop-down/lock-up lever and I like the diagrams and photos of the camera and viewfinder. It’s fine if you and others don’t- it’s just a subjective thing. For me, it enhances my enjoyment of owning my camera.

I’ll admit to having manuals for cameras I don’t even own yet.

Similarly, I enjoy detailed websites like MIR.

 

[Dralowid]

PS 10 pages ought to be enough to cover a serious camera designed for photographers.

I remember the manual for my M6TTL had very few pages, as does the one for my 'proper' SL but the one for my Nex 6 goes on and on.

I apologise for serious 'thread drift'.

 

[David Hughes]

I’ve always viewed manuals as documents that covers every little thing a camera can do and how to do it… and you only refer to the section you need to refer to. I would never, ever read the whole manual … there simply is no need to.

True but finding that little thing can be difficult and some of the new things built in can be useful but how do you find them? I'd like to switch from using the EVF in Summer to looking at what I've just taken on the monitor or display screen. Especially when the subject is tricky. I might be able to do it in one touch of something but just don't know.

Mostly I set the camera up once and hope that it lasts and I can remember how to get to the setting when it decides to flip.

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

I have online versions of manuals as well and I often do a search within a .pdf - however, that is still no substitute for having information on a topic in one place where it can be read without having to hop back and forth. A well organized manual such as that for the K10D indicates those who wrote the manual likely communicated well with each other and had focus on the topic - resulting in that topic being explained well. A disjointed manual gives me the impression the team members didn’t collaborate very well and possibly some aspect of a function or operation has not been explained well.

As for boring - that’s a subjective matter. I have always loved reading and books. As an engineer, I love a well written manual. The manual for the Canon EF of 1973 is enjoyable to me because I like the descriptions of things like the combined self-timer/stop-down/lock-up lever and I like the diagrams and photos of the camera and viewfinder. It’s fine if you and others don’t- it’s just a subjective thing. For me, it enhances my enjoyment of owning my camera.

I’ll admit to having manuals for cameras I don’t even own yet.

Similarly, I enjoy detailed websites like MIR.

Yes many of them are disjointed and obviously written separately and then linked together in some sort of order without any editing to see that they all use the same word(s) for the same control. And no index, grrrr!

A well written manual is a minor work of art and they can be read for the pleasure of seeing the technique. It's a bit like taking a camera to bits to see how it works and so on - but don't try this at home children; ask Daddy first...

F'instance, I can remember the first time I saw a photo of a camera with arrows and labels pointing to and identifying controls and then a genius had a bright idea and after the label they added in brackets the page number dealing with it.

Regards, David

 

[David Hughes]

I remember the manual for my M6TTL had very few pages, as does the one for my 'proper' SL but the one for my Nex 6 goes on and on.

I apologise for serious 'thread drift'.

Hmmm, but this is about sales and what puts people off affects sales. So I see a discussion about the shortcomings as very relevant.

If we were a "thinktank" we'd be paid thousands for this...

Regards, David