Classified sales appear to be slowing

Jamie Pillers said:
No one yet as mentioned the influence of raging digital gear developments going on these days. I think sales here could also be slowed by the fact that there are so many interesting digital camera ideas bubbling up these days. The ideas are coming so fast now that people might be waiting to see if their notion of the perfect digital camera is just over the horizon (like the "OM-D" for example).
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Actually I did mention that a bit ago :)

Another thing I've noticed with the 'higher' end gear is the pretty high prices people are asking. Maybe it's just in M lenses, but stuff is going for almost twice what it did 1-2 years ago. Why isn't really important for this discussion, but it certainly puts a damper on my interest in some of it. Whereas I might be interested in trying out a used lens for a decent bit below MSRP, there's no way in hell I'm going to shell out 15% ABOVE list price for a used lens that has no warrantee.

Others in different financial situations obviously might have different opinions.
 
gdi said:
Actually, buying new will stimulate the global economy a lot more than used purchases - so patronize the new equipment dealers in the classifieds!
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I disagree. Buying my used 35'cron will help me pay my car loan, my phone bill, and my girlfriends student loan, as well as a few clothing items for my 10 month old son.

Spend with me and you'll be spreading the wealth around!
 
it might be that i'm just not buying and selling like i used to...being done and all...;)

also...the classifieds are much biggher now, way more ads showing for longer periods so you are seeing what moves and what doesn't...
 
FrankS said:
Everyone should do their part to stimulate the economy, and buy one or two items from the classifieds. I did, this morning, now it's your turn.

:)
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Well, I tried a couple of days ago, but either the "contact seller" function isn't working or the seller didn't respond :(

...Mike
 
It's not just high-end gear when people are asking silly prices.

Recently, I saw someone asked $150 for a Jupiter 12. Hellooooo???
 
Paul T. said:
I'm seeing a lot of items 20 -40 per cent higher than they would have been a year ago.
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The U.S. dollar has been sliding the past four years against many of the world's major currencies so I suppose U.S. sellers, at least, could be shopping their stuff to buyers outside the United States. Or maybe just desperation in the face of an extended bad economy.
 
Paul T. said:
It's not just high-end gear when people are asking silly prices.

Recently, I saw someone asked $150 for a Jupiter 12. Hellooooo???
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The Russian lenses have gotten crazy expensive. I remember when you could get a Jupiter 3 for $50.
 
dogberryjr said:
Why do you say this? Not arguing, just curious about what you mean.
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The lenses I bought a couple years ago are selling for 2-3x as much as I paid for them. Not too long ago, you could get Nikkor 50/1.4 for $200-250. Now people are selling them for $500+. I bought my 50 ASPH for a bit more than $2k, new, but gray market. Now you can barely buy them used, and they go easily for $300-500 more than list.

I like Leica M cameras and lenses, but I'm not sure if I like them this much :) There's a lot of stuff that I could do with the money I have in my Leica M system, so I'm getting rid of the stuff I only use periodically.
 
DanOnRoute66 said:
The U.S. dollar has been sliding the past four years against many of the world's major currencies so I suppose U.S. sellers, at least, could be shopping their stuff to buyers outside the United States. Or maybe just desperation in the face of an extended bad economy.
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It certainly has slid against the yen, but not so much against the Euro. Sure, there's a lot of ups and downs, but nothing which would explain the huge increase in Leica list prices. And what hurts even more is that you used to get pretty good and current Leica gear used for about 60-80% of the new price (for example, I bought a 28 Summicron for $2k used). Now it's so common to price it at or above list price if it's in great shape.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=EUR&view=5Y

I found this thread while googling. Kind of interesting to see what list prices were in 2007 and what some of our reactions to them were:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46726

One lens that has gotten super crazy is the 90 APO. I saw them selling used for $1500-1800 about 2-3 years ago. Now I bet you could sell it for $4k. The only Leica item which doesn't seem to be following this trend is the M7. Haha. Which is strange, because I do love my M7.
 
It seems to me the contrary

It seems to me the contrary

clicker said:
It seem as if the ad to sales ratio is changing.I see more very nice items that are not being sold and I am sure there are many reasons why the slow down is taking place. We are living in difficult financial times and hopefully in the not too distant future sellers will be able to sell and buyers will be willing to buy.On the positive side maybe we all will shoot more with what we have and turn down the GAS.
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I'm not agree with you... i have put on sell some of my beauty Nikon RF items, this time just sell items for 8000 USD, have a look on classified, i think there is a little grown up of the market....:D:D:D:D
 
Field said:
This is pretty political but...

Not really. Sorry. False sense of stimulation. The only way this works is if significant amounts of money is produced and circulated among the lower classes. Ultimately it de-values the money and products (these days in a hurry). However every time the money moves -even if it is from you to a local camera shop, to Lecia- , everyone single time, money flows up and into capitol of rich that only invest it to take more capitol from people. If money doesn't come down from the top investing in things that are good for communities, points of pride, then nothing changes but our illusion.

You may believe previously in history that the economy was stimulated by people buying things. In a way it was... However that excess capitol for stimulation is now debt. Essentially you see an influx when money tied down is circulated by deregulation. As we now know though, it all gets sucked up into the major players as we "spend out wealth cause it just comes at us".

Technically what you want to do is circulate local money as much as possible with used things of value. You keep this circulation rate high and it redefines the value of new things. Those with, will invest and invest, and fail because local circulation is stronger and their products ultimate worth is low. They will throw money at it, or end up spending money while not making. That will increase the amount of not-inflated money circulating in daily people's hands. Currently the issue is we are rather not "allowed too" do this because when those trying to take all our capitol sense this situation you get retaliation of law. You see things like FBI raiding raw milk clubs. You see new standards for the food industry that force out competition. New ways to transact money, new coupons, new press releases about how the local people are "ripping you off" by charging "too much".

You can imagine how hard it is to get the ball rolling since it is essentially illegal, but do you think the next crash will be better or worse than this one?
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Yeah, I wasn't talking about political rhetoric, but, rather, economics. It is hard to understand all of your post, particularly the third paragraph, but it seems you are rolling a whole occupy/far left political positions into your argument discounting my post - those ideas are pretty popular right now.

Of course my post wasn't meant to spark a political argument, so I am not going go about picking your points apart one by one. Economics is a complex field, and one in which economists can honestly argue opposing theories. But I would say that any learned student of any school of economics I have ever met would not dismiss my statement, that demand for new products, and the associated economic growth, job and wealth creation, is a false stimulus and of no value.
 
swoop said:
I disagree. Buying my used 35'cron will help me pay my car loan, my phone bill, and my girlfriends student loan, as well as a few clothing items for my 10 month old son.

Spend with me and you'll be spreading the wealth around!
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I don't blame you for disagreeing! I have nothing for sale right now - though I did buy a beautiful M-Hexanon lens last week from the classifieds.

Good luck with that summicron - if it is priced right it can't last long!
 
I don't buy M lenses anymore. Prices are just too high. Apart from that, I did my testing a few years back and kept the lenses I liked.
M bodies, I buy if they are what I'm looking for and priced right.
As far as selling goes, I've still got an M6 in the classifieds at what I consider a bargain and although I would like to sell it, I'd rather keep it than sell it under valued.
I do think there are a lot of over valued M lenses being advertised lately.
I also think that because of the economy, buyers tend to think they can get gear at knockdown prices. I've recently had a guy try to buy a batch of stuff from me and after agreeing on a price he then tries to get it post free and reduced by a further €15. This was on a deal worth €1400 ! In the end I refuse to sell to people who think like this, it's too much hassle.
 
Prices for gear are reflected by the world market, and as the dollar has been losing value for the last 5 years, it's inevitable that prices go up.

Another thing to consider is the time of year. Right now people are dealing with the debts they incurred over the holiday season, and many are also paying their taxes. Also, many of the temporary holiday workers who were hired to work during the holiday season were dismissed, and are now out of work.

Things will again begin to pick up later in the spring, as they usually do.
 
The gear is worth the same, it's the dollar that has tanked. Perhaps we should bank on a Leica standard...no pun intended. :)
 
I don't buy it because everyone is broke... someone always has money to spend. Put a 35mm Zeiss biogon or 50mm planar on here at a normal price and it'll sell in a instant. I think it's just that everyone at RFF knows prices and many wait for deals only. It seems like anything that is priced at just the right price doesn't sell as easily anymore. I think we'll see some action soon... since it's tax return time in the US.
 
I guess the concept of buying something because you need it is unknown here. :D

(Or not buying anything because you have all you need)

:D:D
 
In defense of RFF Classifieds, I have to report that I sold 3 lenses over 3 weeks. Each sold within 2 hours of posting, with multiple responses and even several people sending money at once.
All had been recently CLA'd and sold at a fair price...maybe too fair. So I've got no complaints.
 
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