Cleaning a Summar

[Dez]

I have just bought a nice 50mm Summar that not surprisingly, needs cleaning. It has a fair amount of mist on the rear surface of the front element, a common problem with these lenses it seems.

I was able to unscrew the front group with little problem, to clean and re-lube the diaphragm ring, but that %$#@&* designation ring retaining the front element will not budge. Yes, I have taken out the setscrew. I am using a rubber stopper of appropriate size, and have been able to put a LOT of torque on the ring, but no go. There is no visible damage to the ring or the filter threads, so I guess I am just seeing reluctance to move after being in the same place for the last 70 years.

I have carefully inserted some penetrating oil around the join of the ring and the threads, so maybe that will help. Does anyone have a magic method they would like to share??

Cheers,
Dez

 

[georg16nik]

Hi Dez,
after you unscrew the small set screw on the name plate, you need a rubber that will wrap around the front rim and unscrew it counterclockwise, then if you need to go further, unscrew the next section., the one with index dot for the ƒ numbers.
I've used electric guitar instrument cable to unscrew the front sections on mine.
I am attaching a few pics.

 

[Steve M.]

If worse comes to worse, set the front of the lens in a coffee cup w/ 99% alcohol overnight. Give it a few small taps w/ a piece of wood in the morning. This has freed up every thing I've soaked it in. The Summar was the first lens that I cleaned up, and what a difference it made in IQ!

 

[Luddite Frank]

Would alcohol attack any Balsam used to cement lens elements together ?

 

[yoyo22]

I used hydrogen peroxide in low concentration on the fogged front element of my collapsible Summicron. After 12 hours it was absolutely clean.

 

[Dez]

Hi Dez,
after you unscrew the small set screw on the name plate, you need a rubber that will wrap around the front rim and unscrew it counterclockwise, then if you need to go further, unscrew the next section., the one with index dot for the ƒ numbers.
I've used electric guitar instrument cable to unscrew the front sections on mine.

Thanks for posting the excellent pictures. I really like the transparent colour overlay feature- that's a very good idea.

My problem has been that the thread between the first element carrier and the element 2/3 carrier is much tighter than the thread between the front group assembly and the lens body, so that when I unscrew the front ring, the whole front group comes out. It's not supposed to do that, but my lens was apparently not aware of that fact.

I had the correct ring wrench to fit the front group thread, but not the 36mm one needed for the front ring. After much worry, I did what the lens repairer should NEVER do- I used vicegrips and a sheet of rubber for the front ring, and then a lot of brute force. Fortunately, the rubber held properly and the thread unscrewed, with no damage to the front ring.

Cleaning the back of the front element was the job of a minute, and putting everything back together is of course straightforward. It makes a huge difference in the clarity of the lens. Now I can go out and use my Summar, and instead of having no contrast, I'll have almost no contrast, as was the case when it was new. Oh, and I'll go to Microtools and buy the correct 36mm ring wrench.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[traveler_101]

If worse comes to worse, set the front of the lens in a coffee cup w/ 99% alcohol overnight. Give it a few small taps w/ a piece of wood in the morning. This has freed up every thing I've soaked it in. The Summar was the first lens that I cleaned up, and what a difference it made in IQ!

Makes one wonder what happens to your insides when you swallow a shot of 80 proof Scotch 😱

I sent my Summar to Youxin Ye for cleaning, but I really wish I could have done it myself. I've been dissuaded by failing even to get all the screws out of an Industar 61 I wanted to clean and lubricate. Maybe i should try to alcohol trick on that one 😀

 

[martinjames]

Thanks for posting the excellent pictures. I really like the transparent colour overlay feature- that's a very good idea.

My problem has been that the thread between the first element carrier and the element 2/3 carrier is much tighter than the thread between the front group assembly and the lens body, so that when I unscrew the front ring, the whole front group comes out. It's not supposed to do that, but my lens was apparently not aware of that fact.

I had exactly the same experience with my '32 nickel Summar. Still haven't been able to get the front element off. I recently acquired a '38 chrome model and, using the rubber cable grip technique, had no problem removing the front piece. But - wouldn't you know it - the serious cleaning needs to happen further inside. The front glass was pretty clean inside. At that point I decided to leave it to a professional and have sent it off for servicing!

Might try a soaking for the older lens...

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Recently acquired an 'early' style summar. It has drying marks / haze behind the front lens element.

I can unscrew the whole front lens group as shown above, but I haven't figured out how to get to the internal surfaces of this group.

 

[john neal]

Rick, I forget exactly, but is this the one lens that has the two elements secured by the carrier being peened over? Or was that the Summitar?

 

[Mr_Flibble]

I'm not that familiar with how they were put together to be honest.
The one I am talking about is the Summar with the two pins limiting the movement of the aperture ring.

This one to be exact

Do I unscrew the name ring to get the front element out?
Or do I unscrew the rear section off front element group?

 

[john neal]

Rick,

The name ring unscrews, but I think the two lens group is peened behind the 2nd element. Have a look at this old thread here:-

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48654

At least Rob found a way to take it apart to rectify separated Canada Balsam.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Well cr@p! Looks like I won't be able to get to the internal surfaces within that group without the proper tools. I don't trust myself enough with a mill bench to do this.

Looks like I'll have to send it out for a CLA.

 

[Spicy]

wholly and utterly off topic, but what is this baseplate attachment? i don't recall ever having seen anything like it on a Barnack (I've seen trigger-winds, but they're about 1/3 as thick...)

i'm baffled

 

[Mr_Flibble]

It is a Leica "MOOLY" motor drive. This spring-wound motor will let you take about 12 images at 1 frame per second. Unfortunately the linkage arm is missing that connects it to the shutter button.

 

[Mr_Flibble]

Update:

Managed to unscrew the knurled ring holding the front two elements from the ring with the aperture dot, with the help of an old sponge and a workbench vice.
I cut the sponge in half and seated the lens part between the two sponge halves in the vice. Carefully tightened it until I could get enough grip so I could unscrew the parts.

As luck would have it the condensation circle was only on the rear of the second element! No need to separate the elements from the knurled bezel! Hurrah!

Time to test this baby out! 🙂

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Did you hear a huge sigh of relief from us all as we read that? It might have knocked the earth off orbit for a second...

Regards, David

 

[Mr_Flibble]

😀

If you think this was bad, you must've missed that disturbance in the force when I was messing around with a Leitz 50mm f/1.5 Xenon last year. 😉

 

[john neal]

Rick,

You are one lucky person! Let's see some results 😉

I have one from 1936 that was serviced by CRR around the beginning of last year. When I got it the exterior was almost mint, but the inside was horrid. I didn't have the courage to open it, given its condition, and it needed new horsehair felt around the tube which I was not able to source.

Amazing how using it has reduced the exterior condition - I wonder if the chrome on the barrel is particularly soft on these? Here is a recent MM shot with it

 

[Dralowid]

Chrome? What chrome?