Color-Skopar 21mm & Asph. Nokton 50mm, or old Leica alternative?

[hoot]

The current 21mm Elmarit-M probably has no competition, but for those of us who don't own a matching yacht 😉 , which 21mm rangefinder lens (any mount) would you most warmly recommend? I'd like to set a high standard in regard to image quality - not so much sharpness/contrast as simply that "je ne sais quoi" brilliance that turns photos into magic... some of you will know what I mean.

While we're at it, I'll be needing a matching 50mm (or 45mm) lens catering to the same demands. I do not yet own an interchangable-lens RF body, so whichever mount you recommend is fine.

Right now my eyes are set on the Color-Skopar 21mm f/4 and Aspherical Nokton 50mm f/1.5. To those of you who have used these lenses, how happy have you been with them? Feel free to point out your photos shot with either lens.

Alternately, if there are matching *old* Leica lenses (probably not for the 21mm, eh?) costing approximately the same, please share!

Thanks!

 

[Richard Black]

I can't help with personal knowledge of either of these two lenses. I have the Color-Skopar 28mm that I have compared to a variety of 28mm w/a slr lenses and it holds it own with the best of those that I own, a Minolta Rokkor 28 in the MD mount and the Minolta 28 in the D, autofocus mount. I truly like the VC 28 enough that it is the lens I leave on the Bessa R. I have a Jupiter 8 that is quite pleasing and produces 8x10 enlargements that have that "character" you stress. Both are cheaper that the L's. Now I have seen the VC 21mm and have dreamed of it. Does that count?

 

[vincentbenoit]

Hi

I have both lenses. I'm very satisfied with the image quality, then again I only use fast B&W film so my standards might be lower than yours. I can't comment first-hand on how these lenses compare to top-notch Leica or Zeiss glass (none of which I've ever used), but from what I've heard the Voigtlaenders are not far behind when stopped down a bit.

Yet... however good lenses the 21 Skopar and 50 Nokton might be, I've decided to part with both, just because they don't suit my shooting style. Basically, the 21 is too wide, and the 50 is too big. Let me explain:
- I initially bought the 21mm with two applications in mind: street photography and architecture. In the street, the huge depth-of-field is very handy, but I've come to realise that I can't frame such a wide lens properly in fast-paced shooting situations, and all I get are pics that are sharp but poorly composed. Therefore I've decided to stick to 28mm as my wide-angle lens of choice for street photography. As to architecture, 21mm is certainly well suited for it, but this remains a marginal use for me and I can't justify to keep the 21 for that application only.
- I bought the 50 Nokton essentially for night shooting, and the lens certainly lends itself well to that use, however I find it to be just a bit too big for my taste, and I really don't like the fact that a portion of the viewfinder is obstructed by the lens. In addition, I really miss a focussing tab or lever.

I've just started scanning the pictures I took over the last few month (now that I have a scanner that can resolve film grain...) so I can't point you to any of my own sample images yet, but I'm sure you'll find many in the members galleries. Be aware, though, that pictures displayed on a computer screen are a very poor guide of image quality.

Anyway, both my 21/4 and 50/1.5 are for sale, so if you're interested just let me know.

Cheers

Vincent

 

[Fred]

Richard,

I too have the 28 Skopar and love it, very small and wonderfully sharp but maybe a tad slow for real lower light stuff. Very good for 12 x 16 enlargemements.

I've never read anything nasty about the CV 21, in fact the oposite, Maybe I need to consider this one as well.

I can't comment on the optical quality of the 50m f1.5 but can state that the build feels a class better than the cost suggests.

If money permits look out for a used Summicron F2. It's slower than the CV but can be used wide open with ease so the useable aperture is on par with the CV.

Either way the CV lenses are really good, the older used Leica lenses may not be that much better if any image wise, but they may well last longer and may be better at full aperture.

 

[Fred]

Vincent,

Interesting your point on the focus tab. I use a 50mm cron without a tab and find it comfortable, but the 35 cron I use that has a tab is good for a swift foucus on a subject over 10 feet away or so but close focus is a pain. I miss my old CV 35 Ultron for that allround smooth focus.

 

[hoot]

Thanks for the varied responses.

Manolo, I think this is the first time I've looked at a bunch of your photos. They're wonderful. You're a gifted photographer; keep at it! Anyhow, the image quality looks splendid... have you made any large wet-prints? How happy are you with those?

Richard and Vincent - I'd better not get a 28mm lens because then I'd just want to buy one of those really expensive rangefinders with 28mm framelines (keep still, my beating heart!). The 21mm/50mm combo seems like a better option because then I can get a cheap RF and stick on an Ikodot sportsfinder for framing. On the other hand, if anyone wants to "donate" their Leica MP... 😀

Vincent, thanks for the info on the lack of focusing tab on the 50mm. I'd really miss that. It'd probably be too much trouble to have it fitted with one, so maybe I'll go with Fred's suggestion and look for an old 50mm Summicron (heck, or a Jupiter 8!). I'm going to PM you about the Skopar, though.

Nobody has suggested any decent 21mm alternatives, so I guess there aren't any...?

 

[ducttape]

I JUST got the 21 and haven't used it enough to tell. I was using a Kobalux 2.8 21mm, which I will be selling, because I felt it too large. But, I like the perspective the 21 gives.

I shot this from atop the Eiffel Tower in a rain storm one December eve. It was with the 50mm F1.5 VC on my M7. I was shooting Supra 800.

If the pic doesn't show, here is it as Leica Forum:

Pic at the Leica Forum

Here is one more:

and, again, the link West on the Champs

The contrast on both of these is much better than the screen shows, especially in the Champs pic. If anything, I think both pics exceded the lattitude of the film. However, be sure you notice the vignetting in the Eiffel picture. I don't usually experience that with this lens, but it is apparent in this shot. No vignetting in the Champs pic, but I think I may have stopped down a bit.

Yes, as mentioned below, the lens IS big. But, at f1.5 it lets you shoot in places not normally available for hand held. I brought it along to do night shots in Paris, and it functioned perfectly. Also, as mentioned below, the quality of the lens is a real sleeper, especially at the price. It is really a true bargain.

 

[Nikon Bob]

Here is some info on the 21mm models http://www.nemeng.com/leica/029ba.shtml . I have the 21mm F4 Skopar and like it very much. I think there is one shot with it in my gallery.

Bob

 

[peter_n]

The Kobalux is an excellent lens, but is a little on the big size as mentioned above. It has fantastic build quality and is optically excellent. Occasionally a bit of light fall-off in the corners but overall a really good lens. Attached is a picture of the lens so you can judge its size and a shot taken with it.

 

[hoot]

Thanks, Bob and Peter! Looks like it'll either be the Skopar or the Kobalux for 21mm. Both seem to be very reasonably priced.

 

[peter_n]

The Kobalux also goes under the name of Bower, Avenon, and Pasoptik just to confuse matters. 😉 In Europe I think they mainly sell under the brands of Avenon and Pasoptik. The second and third generation of the lens are the ones to look out for, the main difference between them is that the 2nd gen. only focuses to 0.9M close-up but the 3rd gen. focuses down to 0.7M.