comments in the classifieds

[benlees]

Not allowing ''negative'' comments is silly. You are allowed to say 'Good price! Somebody should snap that up!' but not 'Little steep!' Disingenuous, I think.

The seller pays for the ad to get access to a highly sympathetic group of camera buffs. Rangefinder cameras tend to sell at a higher price here than they do on Photo.net or on Pentaxforums, for example. When I was researching Mamiya 7 they sold for about $100 less on Photo.net than they did here. That is what you pay the $5 for- not for control of how people may react to your ad.

Buyer beware- of course I agree with this- but if a certain camera is selling for $375 in user condition one week then someone who is selling a very nice example for $800 the next week should make some bells ring. A so-called negative comment could be of service to the buyer and the seller.

 

[George S.]

Brian, making a comment that only says "PM Sent" sends a message that that PM sender has contacted the seller to buy the item. That would discourage many more from inquiring further, thus hurting the seller's chances.

But let's say it doesn't send that message, just what useful purpose does posting ONLY "PM Sent" serve?

 

[former member]

>Brian, making a comment that only says "PM Sent" sends a message that that PM sender
>has contacted the seller to buy the item. That would discourage many more from inquiring
>further, thus hurting the seller's chances.

I've learned from experience that many of those "PM Sent" are lower offers, inquiries for information, inquiries for trade, or just buying time to dig up funds for an item. So I send my PM stating I WILL buy the item. Gets me into making a decision as opposed to "thinking on it". In that sense, it can only aid in selling the item.

Best way for a seller to handle a PM sent that was not a hard offer to buy is to quickly post an "Item still Available".

Either way, seeing the PM Sent without an accompying "I WILL BUY the item" in the same message should not prevent anyone else from stating they would also like to buy it. This is not Ebay, and the item is not on a "Buy It Now". "PM Sent" does not end an open listing like a BIN. It is a Classified Ad. Items might still be available until Paid For. And hopefully not after that!

On the nice example vs user: that is what I mean by being able to defend a price if negative comments are posted. I can usually justify any price that I set on an Item. Most of the time it is "I do not use this enough, and I want it to find a good home."

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I never post a "PM sent." I just send the PM and buy it. Different strokes.

 

[benlees]

Even a token familiarity with the "market" would reveal user cameras to be 20-30% less than an excellent example. RFF is an artificial market at best- prices cajoled by a community of like minded enthusiasts. Keh.com and ebay are perhaps more accurate indicators of this so-called market. Prices are often less at these places. If people are willing to pay more from RFF because they feel more safe then fine; no problem.

Capitalism!? Please! We should all aspire to be Ken Lay! I have no problem with people making a profit. Fishing expeditions and attempts to gouge in run and gun fashion are not generally conducive to a happy community experience. As such, I see no problem pointing out unfair prices. If the market is as strong as some people say then the naysayers will be ignored. If people are too sensitive to get past a little questioning then perhaps they should go elsewhere.

 

[BillBingham2]

Like Brian, I've lined up behind people and last time it came through with a wonderfully fun GX100. Some times it does not work but that's life. I start by sending the PM and then posting a note in the listing (timing can be everything some times).

I've sold some stuff to folks who are very hard to communicate. In spite of the flames I get from my wife it's always worked out.

B2 (;->

 

[climbing_vine]

Yes, what we really need is a public vendor option to introduce competition to the RFF market and discipline the private sellers - those scoundrels!

:angel:

Private =/= competitive =/= free market, necessarily. Leave that canard at the door and let's not make this a silly political debate.

 

[gdi]

Private =/= competitive =/= free market, necessarily. Leave that canard at the door and let's not make this a silly political debate.

It was a joke and I don't care if you don't get it!

Canard, LOL!

 

[climbing_vine]

It was a joke and I don't care if you don't get it!

Canard, LOL!

Sigh, I get it. The problem is it's not clever or true enough to be funny. It's just off-topic. And sophomoric.

 

[former member]

If items sell for a premium at RFF, it's usually because the market knows the individual selling it and can have confidence that the item actually works.

I've bought from KEH for twenty years now. I typically pay less for an item from RFF. I know prices well. The $100 5cm F2 Nikkor picked up recently was a KEH EX+, and "some oil" on the aperture cleaned out in 20 minutes. The Ultron was KEH mint-. It goes for 30%~50% more at KEH than I paid for it here. Just checked. I got it for $39 less than the 35/2.5 Skopar in EX+ at KEH.

BUT: I am not likely to pay $300 for a Japanese Fixed-Lens RF when I sold the same model for $85 after replacing the seals, testing the meter, and shooting with film. No one did. That's a free market.

And the $5 went to keeping the site running.

 

[gdi]

Sigh, I get it. The problem is it's not clever or true enough to be funny. It's just off-topic. And sophomoric.

No clearly the problem is that the comment was meant for someone with more ability to understand it in context.

And not everyone has the same sense of humor. So just move along and skip the policing.

 

[35mmdelux]

I've never bought or sold here, yet, but I would not like to pay my five bucks then get comments like some I've seen here.

Time wasters.

How do you know? As you said, you never bought or sold here or posted much either. PNET ads are boring which is why people prefer to post on RFF. I just dont think the system is broken. Anyone abusing the system needs to get warned and if it persists get the boot.

 

[climbing_vine]

No clearly the problem is that the comment was meant for someone with more ability to understand it in context.

And not everyone has the same sense of humor. So just move along and skip the policing.

Policing =/= replying to a sophomoric attack.

You seem to have problems with false equivalencies. Myself, I have a problem with responding to people who don't warrant it. I'll work on that.

And if you can't see why the response to Fred was on-topic, you obviously aren't actually reading the thread. And should probably stop stalking me with one-liner replies.

 

[climbing_vine]

If items sell for a premium at RFF, it's usually because the market knows the individual selling it and can have confidence that the item actually works.

I've bought from KEH for twenty years now. I typically pay less for an item from RFF. I know prices well. The $100 5cm F2 Nikkor picked up recently was a KEH EX+, and "some oil" on the aperture cleaned out in 20 minutes. The Ultron was KEH mint-. It goes for 30%~50% more at KEH than I paid for it here. Just checked. I got it for $39 less than the 35/2.5 Skopar in EX+ at KEH.

That's been my observation too. Of the items that actually sell here, they seem to be priced somewhere between the KEH "full retail" and the eBay "crapshoot" median. Particularly for the Olympus, Pentax, CV, and fixed-lens RF stuff that I pay most attention to.

 

[gdi]

Policing =/= replying to a sophomoric attack.

You seem to have problems with false equivalencies. Myself, I have a problem with responding to people who don't warrant it. I'll work on that.

You obviously have a problem with reading for context and general comprehension. If you viewed my joking comment to Fred as an attack on you then your problems may be a bit deeper than you are assuming.

But still, working toward not responding is a good, if incomplete, plan. It could help you avoid becoming a incurable twit.

*Edited after your absurd stalking accusation:

If you consider my replying to your inane interpretation of a joke as a personal attack and a false equivalency stalking - then so be it. I suppose you are just used to insulting people to make them go away and it isn't working out that way this time. Maybe one more thing for you to work on?

 

[35mmdelux]

[FONT=&quot]The seller has paid for their ad and consequently they should have full control and responsibility for the ad and the associated comments.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The seller should be given full control of their ad, including the option to turn the comments option off. If they choose to leave the comments option on, then the seller should also have the capability to delete the comments associated with their ad. If this is not possible then comments should be restricted to only the seller.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Comments should not bump the ad to a more favorable viewing position. What needs to be avoided is the ‘circle jerk’ mentality that favors pricing, product and individuals over the interests of the individual sellers that have paid to have their ads placed in the RFF classifieds.[/FONT]

Well, that's your opinion. The seller does not buy "full control" over anything. The seller merely buys a spot in the flea market, he doesnt own it.

Ive bought MPs, M7s, M6s, Noctilux(1), Summiluxes, Summicrons, Hasselblads here. I invite any and all comments when I do business -- I want as much transparency as possible before I send off thousands of dollars.

 

[former member]

The seller buys into the terms of use of the Classified Ads here at RFF. Those terms of use include "No Negative Comments". As the software does not filter negative comments, the Moderators must do it manually. The Moderators are within their rights to issue warnings or infractions to those posting negative comments. The approach is that no one is forcing you to look at an ad, or buying an item. They can enforce the No Negative Comment rule with deletions, infractions, and bans.

If some seller wants to price an Argus C3 at $2,000, the site gets $5. If it belonged to Franklin Roosevelt, the buyer got a good deal.

And Sonny Bono's SP went for a really decent $2,000 on Ebay a few years ago. SN in the 6232xxx range. Titanium shutter, Nikon F longer advance lever. I bid on it, did not win it. But got a much better deal on Photonet and on RFF for similar SP's.

 

[Pappy]

How do you know? As you said, you never bought or sold here

Correct, I have not yet bought or sold here, but I've been watching.
Presumably when one posts an ad one has the choice to receive email updates, so, the seller is either going to get a pile of BS emails or have to watch constantly the ad for comments. Either way, a waste of time IMHO.

Civility is also a problem.

I once saw a comment from your good self, one word:

"References?"

Not very polite, again, IMHO.

If you are really interested in buying the camera, why not PM the seller?

 

[35mmdelux]

Correct, I have not yet bought or sold here, but I've been watching.
Presumably when one posts an ad one has the choice to receive email updates, so, the seller is either going to get a pile of BS emails or have to watch constantly the ad for comments. Either way, a waste of time IMHO.

Civility is also a problem.

I once saw a comment from your good self, one word:

"References?"

Not very polite, again, IMHO.

If you are really interested in buying the camera, why not PM the seller?

Pappy,

I am moving fast like many of the people I do business with and dont have time for flora requests. I post on the ad and PM the seller -- of course you dont see the PM. In 4 years of buying & selling I've never received a BS email -- in business every email isnt a commitment to buy.

If you ever bought something here for $1000 or $4000 you may have a diff take on the issue. Thanks for your concern.

 

[benlees]

Fred, that sort of "communism" red herring is beneath you. You know very well that nobody is saying that. What is being advocated is indeed capitalism--the real kind, where people have enough knowledge to act rationally. Not the predatory kind which is indistinguishable from phony-crony "communism", where it's an exercise in who can dupe who, thereby upsetting the balance of power between buyer and seller.

Nicely said.