comments on summicron collapsible 50/2

[iridium7777]

any experience using it? things to watch out for?

how would one compare it to say the current zeiss 50/2?

is it good enough to have as your only lens?

i only take pictures in color if that matters any.

thanks.

 

[payasam]

Any particular reason for thinking of a collapsible lens?

 

[iridium7777]

price, size, leica brand name. in that order.

i wouldn't buy new/mint 50/2 leica lens at around 1k when i'm pretty sure i'll be happy with zeiss for half the price. this seems like the next best thing if i want the leica name.

why, are collapsible lenses, in general, inferior to their "normal" counterparts?

Any particular reason for thinking of a collapsible lens?

 

[hans voralberg]

I havent heard that they're inferior and lots of people here shoot with it, I've seen some good pics but cant remember any name.

Flickr have quite a few pics shot with it, if you're interested
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=summicron+collapsible&w=all&m=tags&sourceid=firefox

 

[Benjamin Marks]

Here is my best guess: Lenses work best when their elements are all aligned (collimated). Collapsible lenses have a pull-and-twist arrangement to extend a lens to its working configuration, that a) must be made of very precisely cut brass and which b) over years, may become less precise. With a rigid lens, everything gets set at the factory, and absent a bang or a knock, should stay that way.

What does the group think?

Ben Marks

 

[dpetrzelka]

The 50/2 collapsible Summicron is great for what it does- I think the forum would need more information to be able to provide any insight into whether this lens will suit your style.

I posted a few photos in the Black and White/Which Leica 50mm do you like Best discussion.

and also posted a few thoughts in the The venerable 50 discussion.

Can you provide more details about what you are looking for in a 50? Since you are only shooting color my first guess is that you will want a more modern coating on your lens- but again, we'd need to know more about what you want to achieve.

 

[telenous]

any experience using it? things to watch out for?

how would one compare it to say the current zeiss 50/2?

is it good enough to have as your only lens?

i only take pictures in color if that matters any.

thanks.

I had a coll. Cron for a while, used it mainly to turn the M2 into a P&S. It's a good lens if you are after that certain vintage look, medium contrast, quite flary, with very smooth midtones. By f/5.6 it's really sharp, still usable wide open but you 've got to pay attention for flare.

Quite a few examples to be found here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/86731438@N00/pool/tags/LeicaSummicron50mmf2.0collapsible

No comparison to the Planar 50 ZM, the Zeiss lens is contrasty, sharp right off the bat, very resistant to flare.

I am very partial to vintage lenses (particularly the rigid 'Cron, which is somewhat better than the collapsible) for their particular signature but choosing the coll. Cron as my only lens would mean that I 'd have to use its strengths and work around its weaknesses.

PS. Using the collapsible Cron with very contrasty films like Velvia results in a very beautiful palette. Check my good friend's Th@Fred colour photos in flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/57493810@N00/tags/leicasummicron50mmf20collapsible/ .

 

[sirius]

Here are some links to look at. It's a nice lens. It has an older look to the way it renders colour from modern lenses (see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/iidesne/320393750/). It has all those lovely mid-tones and detail on the negative that you expect from Leica (see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8660714@N03/). Typically for Leica lenses it works very well wide open. It does flare compared to modern coated lenses but not enough that it will consistently cause offense.

I especially like it wide with a close subject. Here are some samples on flickr that look wide and close:
cdnphoto
chienting
jeffvoorhees

One of the absoiute best vintage (and many say ever) lenses is the summicron DR or rigid. Many people love that lens for it's general qualities and it's usually around $600-700. It is a sharper rendering lens that the collapsible.

In terms of collapsible and fast, the cron is better than the summitars and that other one (summarit f1.5) by far. It's the best f2 collapsible Leica makes, in my opinion. They are an old lens now, so you have to be careful to find one without cleaning marks or other signs of aging.

Here's a thread with a little more info and a few samples. I recommend you look into the DRs and rigids before you make a final decision. Those will likely give you that classic leica look you are hoping for and they are very good performers for vinage lenses.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46203

 

[sirius]

I was composing for a while. Telonous said quite a few of the things I did too...

 

[SolaresLarrave]

If you won't use it on a Leica, find out if you can collapse the lens into the camera body before buying one.

Even if it's a Leica M5.

Otherwise... it's a nice choice. I have one that came with noticeable cleaning marks (a problem with these lenses is their soft coating). However, despite this small defect, it works well and has a nice sharpness, like most of its contemporaries. In other words, it's not piercingly sharp all around, but does have a nice sharpness on the subject it focuses.

In addition to the cleaning marks, many of these lenses will benefit from a CLA. Mine came apparently well, but with time, the stops in the aperture ring started feeling odd... they got stuck at the wide openings. I sent it then to Sherry Krauter, and it returned a completely different lens, with nice stops and smooth focusing.

You are right in thinking about this lens if you want the Leica nameplate and aren't concern with all-around sharpness at wide openings. Just be aware that it'll need service, unless the seller can prove the lens was CLAed before you purchased it. At least, five years before... 🙂

Have fun shopping!

 

[agi]

Thanks for this thread as it's given me pointers. I just picked up an early M3 ds with a collapsible 50 cron at a bargain price. I took this photo of my wife before I sent the M3 & lens to Youxin Ye for a CLA. Mr. Ye mentioned that there's light haze on the lens but it was in overall good condition. He also mentioned that it's common for a lens of this age. Is this true?

Given what I paid for the body & lens I think I'll be extremely pleased with it when I get it back.

 

[dlove5]

I'm not sure I would be happy with a collapsible Cron being my only 50. It can flare like crazy if I am not careful. The old folding barndoor shade for it is kinda funky, but definitely helps. It also is not my sharpest 50.

It makes a good travel lens because of its small size especially when collapsed. I usually will take a lens along that is more resistant to flare.

I have gotten more positive comments lately about the color in the pictures that this lens produces than others from family and friends which somewhat surprised me since I had thought of it more as a B&W lens.

 

[dlove5]

I should have added that I did get a CLA done on my Cron earlier this year because of internal haze. I have heard haze is a problem especially for Leitz lenses of that era and I have had several lenses from that era that had developed internal haze.

 

[JNewell]

Even if it's a Leica M5.

Yikes, especially if it's an M5! 😀

It was my only lens for many years. Mine originally had coating scratches (very common, soft coatings) that did not affect the pictures to any visible extent, even large enlargements. Haze is another common issue, but a CLA is not awfully expensive for these lenses. The thing that irked me most was the poor ergonomics. The aperture ring is non-linear (minor irk) and because of the collapsible mount the focusing ring is extremely narrow...combine that with the infinity lock and focusing action was less than ideal, in my opinion. (YMMV)

I don't know what your budget is. You can buy the version that followed the rigid/dual range versions for $500-600 in very clean condition...my recollection of pricing on beater collapisbles is that they're often in the $200+ range, so factoring in condition, etc., you get a pretty good value while staying (as you stated) with a Leitz lens.

 

[sirius]

The barn door shade is the only shade that works on the summitar except for that rare summitar only shade. However, there are a couple shades that I've seen on the collapsible 50. There's a cone shaped one, which was the contemporary shade for this lens and the mushroom shaped one (metal or plastic) with cut-outs for modern 50's also works on it.

Yes, the colour can be funky and sometimes very beautiful. Especially indoors in low light...I'll look for some sample that I have.

 

[sirius]

Samples

Samples

Here are a couple that I've taken with this lens. I have a good sample with no apparent haze or scratches. It has always had a filter on it. These photos have not been adjusted or sharpened (they generally take well to a little sharpening). Jpeg at 60 compression to give you a big picture scanned from the negs. It was fuji superia iso 400.

This is one wide open and close.

This one is wide open.

This one is stopped down a bit, f2.8 or f4.

 

[iridium7777]

thanks for all the comments and pictures.

this would be used on an m6 .85, so i don't think there should be a problem.

someone said they don't know if they'd use it as their only 50, well, i only have a 35 right now, so i'm used to just having one camera one lens.

the reason i want a 50 goes back to something i posted before. sometimes unless i seriously end up under people's noses some of my pictures, to me, look a little zoomed out. many times when taking a picture i'd switch over to the 50 frame lines and would think 'wow, that's perfect'.

so in that aspect i do really want a 50, although i'm not sure i'm willing to trade my 35 for it.

i understand that it's an older lens but i also think that it was made for a reason and 50+ years later people are still taking pictures with it that look very nice, thus it can't be all that bad. having this lens would possibly enable me to have 2 lenses, and not having to sell off the 35 to fund a 50. if i was to do a straight trade i'd probably go for zeiss 50/2 just because it's newer and i could keep my filter/guard from the 35.

i would like to use this lens wide open in dim light situations, that's why i was considering it. the samples images that you guys have provided look very nice, thanks for those 🙂

 

[Krosya]

If you want to get a Coll lens - I'd get a Summitar, as it's a very nice lens with old-time/vintage Leica signature. And it was not offered in rigid version. Leica 12585 hood works pretty well on it - see photo.
Summicron has several models/versions and I'd go for a Rigid one - great lens - if you want a to use it for B&W - I found it not to my liking for colour. For colour I'd get a later Summicron, or Hexanon (my personal Favorite) or a Planar.

 

[telenous]

the reason i want a 50 goes back to something i posted before. sometimes unless i seriously end up under people's noses some of my pictures, to me, look a little zoomed out. many times when taking a picture i'd switch over to the 50 frame lines and would think 'wow, that's perfect'.

Just to say, the coll. 'Cron has a min focusing distance of 1m - not 0.7m as is usual with the modern 50's. IQ at closest distance and wide open is not bad at all (see example below - f/2, Neopan 1600).

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The collapsible Summicron and Summitar are close in performance, I'd give a slight edge to the Summicron. The Summicron can be easily found in M-Mount, and the Summitar will require an LTM to M adapter. That must be added into the price. Both are fine for color, and have extremely good color correction.

I tend to favor the Collapsible Summicron on the M3.

Collapsible Summicron wide-open on the M3,

Summitar wide-open on the Canon P.

The Summitar does show more astigmatism in it's "football" shaped out of focus highlights.

Things to watch out for: Haze and Cleaning marks. Both can usually be cleaned up. I cleaned this Summitar myself, it had some bad haze in it. And I replaced the front element of the Summicron with one from a "better" lens that had "interior" problems.