EthanFrank
Well-known
Hi all,
I recently picked up an M3. My plan was to save up in order to buy an M3 and a nice piece of glass at the same time, but the M3 appeared sooner that I thought at such an attractive price that I had to buy it....and now I need to start saving for glass. However, I want to pick up a Jupiter lens or two to start shooting with...I'm thinking of the Jupiter 8 and 12, for 50mm and 35mm coverage, respectively.
Now, I got a little overwhelmed when I looked into rangefinder coupling. I understand how this works with an M mount lens, but what about with these Russian M39 lenses? I've ordered the proper M39-to-M adapters (one for 35mm framelines, and one for 50mm) - what now? Do I need to worry about coupling? Do I need to do anything to ensure they work together, or am I good to go? Luck of the draw?
I apologize if this has been covered before - I'm having some trouble coming up with results using the search function. Seems to be a common problem with forum software...I know I can search via Google to circumvent this, but I've forgotten how.
Thanks!
Cheers.
I recently picked up an M3. My plan was to save up in order to buy an M3 and a nice piece of glass at the same time, but the M3 appeared sooner that I thought at such an attractive price that I had to buy it....and now I need to start saving for glass. However, I want to pick up a Jupiter lens or two to start shooting with...I'm thinking of the Jupiter 8 and 12, for 50mm and 35mm coverage, respectively.
Now, I got a little overwhelmed when I looked into rangefinder coupling. I understand how this works with an M mount lens, but what about with these Russian M39 lenses? I've ordered the proper M39-to-M adapters (one for 35mm framelines, and one for 50mm) - what now? Do I need to worry about coupling? Do I need to do anything to ensure they work together, or am I good to go? Luck of the draw?
I apologize if this has been covered before - I'm having some trouble coming up with results using the search function. Seems to be a common problem with forum software...I know I can search via Google to circumvent this, but I've forgotten how.
Thanks!
Cheers.
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pagpow
Well-known
Hi Ethan,
I search using Google by entering the search term I want and then "rff" -- not in quotations.
Good hunting.
Giorgio
I search using Google by entering the search term I want and then "rff" -- not in quotations.
Good hunting.
Giorgio
sparrow6224
Well-known
Go to Brian Sweeney's pages under FORUMS (look to the left side of your screen); he is the unsurpassed expert on these lenses; he adjusts them (shims) to make sure they are properly aligned and distanced for perfect focusing on the Leicas. In all liklihood he'll weigh in here with an answer but if not a) look over the forum to see what he's said about this stuff in the past and b) reach out to him for assistance.
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EthanFrank
Well-known
Good to know, thank you! I'm looking over his forum now. It's too bad that chances are they'll require work...do they ever show up pre-shimmed in the classifieds?
If I'm paying $50-ish on top of each Jupiter lens, I suppose I should just save up for a Leica instead, eh?
If I'm paying $50-ish on top of each Jupiter lens, I suppose I should just save up for a Leica instead, eh?
Bill58
Native Texan
If I were you, I'd save for a Canon 50/ 1.8 or 1.4 (the best) and the many headaches of Russkie lenses.
EthanFrank
Well-known
I wasn't even aware the f/1.8 existed! Thanks.
I'm liking this forum
I'm liking this forum
Bill58
Native Texan
I wasn't even aware the f/1.8 existed! Thanks.
I'm liking this forum
Yep--and get one off the RFF marketplace--the best place to buy hands down. See here: http://antiquecameras.net/canonrflens.html.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I'll swim against the current and say that I think you ought to look for a Leica lens. Or accept that the J-8 will work when stopped down as DoF will cover the minor differences between them. I quite happily used my Jupiter-8 on the Leica IIIa and M2 before realising that I shouldn't. But I seldom shot wide open and so it didn't matter.
I don't know prices in your country but the Leica 50mm Elmar (a collapsible f/2.8 lens) is not that dear and saves ruining a Jupiter that you might want later on for (say) a FED2. And the Elmar is right for the M2 in many ways; it was the standard lens for many years and people without huge reserves of cash and a bit more sense were very happy to use it.
I'll add that people often get attracted by Leicas and then build up a collection that included the FED 1 clones and then start going along the FED or Zorki trail for a while. And the FED 2 & J-8 is a pleasant combination to have and nowhere near as expensive to get completely overhauled etc.
By the way, using a 35mm lens on a Leica M3 means using either a special version with "glasses" (not entirely satisfactory according to some) or else a 35mm lens with a special viewfinder. It's all rather complicated. The M3 has no frame lines for 35mm.
Just my 2d worth.
Regards, David
I'll swim against the current and say that I think you ought to look for a Leica lens. Or accept that the J-8 will work when stopped down as DoF will cover the minor differences between them. I quite happily used my Jupiter-8 on the Leica IIIa and M2 before realising that I shouldn't. But I seldom shot wide open and so it didn't matter.
I don't know prices in your country but the Leica 50mm Elmar (a collapsible f/2.8 lens) is not that dear and saves ruining a Jupiter that you might want later on for (say) a FED2. And the Elmar is right for the M2 in many ways; it was the standard lens for many years and people without huge reserves of cash and a bit more sense were very happy to use it.
I'll add that people often get attracted by Leicas and then build up a collection that included the FED 1 clones and then start going along the FED or Zorki trail for a while. And the FED 2 & J-8 is a pleasant combination to have and nowhere near as expensive to get completely overhauled etc.
By the way, using a 35mm lens on a Leica M3 means using either a special version with "glasses" (not entirely satisfactory according to some) or else a 35mm lens with a special viewfinder. It's all rather complicated. The M3 has no frame lines for 35mm.
Just my 2d worth.
Regards, David
David Hughes
David Hughes
At the risk of upsetting Bill58, I seem to have been very, very lucky with my FED, Zorki and Kiev lenses. But I have been very, very unlucky with a Leica Summar and a Summitar; although dozens of others by Leica have performed well or brilliantly.
After spending a fortune on the Summar I sold it "for display only" at a loss of UK £128 or so. And I've paid US $10 for a very good FED body and even less for Jupiter 8. But really, with old cameras etc I think it's a matter of luck; especially on ebay.
Given the very mall sample size I'd not pay too much attention to this comment of mine. When all is said and done we are talking about cameras and lenses that date back to the 1930's, which may well be far more than second-hand and dropped and repaired over the years by people who have read on forums that they are easy to repair at home, sitting at the kitchen table and using the bread knife as a screwdriver...
Regards, David
After spending a fortune on the Summar I sold it "for display only" at a loss of UK £128 or so. And I've paid US $10 for a very good FED body and even less for Jupiter 8. But really, with old cameras etc I think it's a matter of luck; especially on ebay.
Given the very mall sample size I'd not pay too much attention to this comment of mine. When all is said and done we are talking about cameras and lenses that date back to the 1930's, which may well be far more than second-hand and dropped and repaired over the years by people who have read on forums that they are easy to repair at home, sitting at the kitchen table and using the bread knife as a screwdriver...
Regards, David
Bill58
Native Texan
Not upset at all--miracles sometimes happen w/ lenses (even Russian). I'm actually quite happy for you.
I've have had good luck w/ my Summar and Summitar--both bought from reputable dealers and professionally CLA'd just before I bought them.
I've have had good luck w/ my Summar and Summitar--both bought from reputable dealers and professionally CLA'd just before I bought them.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Its actually IMPOSSIBLE for a russian lens to focus accurately on a Leica at all distances. Brian Sweeny can adjust them for accuracy up close, or accuracy far away, but NOT both. He's talked about this a lot here on RFF. I had him adjust a J-8 for me and it focused beautifully up close but any more than about 5 feet away, it was not accurate, so you had to really stop down, to like f11, to get sharp photos. I use it for portraits with great results:
My son, about a year ago. Shot with an M6 and a J-8, adjusted for close focus by Brian, shot at f2.8 if I remember right.
My son, about a year ago. Shot with an M6 and a J-8, adjusted for close focus by Brian, shot at f2.8 if I remember right.
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
So far I've only used an Jupiter-3 and Industar-61 on an M-mount camera with an LTM-to-M adapter, both without any adjustment or shims. For me the difference in lens flange focal distance is only a problem at very close range with large apertures.
Nothing as bad as Chris mentions above though.
Both with Epson R-D1 and Jupiter-3
Nothing as bad as Chris mentions above though.
Both with Epson R-D1 and Jupiter-3
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rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I wouldn't worry too much about it (Jupiter-3 on M5):
You can always get an Industar-61 or something for $20 or so plus an adapter. The f/2.8 open aperture helps quite a bit against focus inaccuracies, and you can start taking pictures. If you do end up unhappy (unlikely with an I-61), at least you get to keep the adapter
You can always get an Industar-61 or something for $20 or so plus an adapter. The f/2.8 open aperture helps quite a bit against focus inaccuracies, and you can start taking pictures. If you do end up unhappy (unlikely with an I-61), at least you get to keep the adapter
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
As I see it FED, Leica and Zorki are three different makers and from three different countries. So I don't expect their lenses to be mix and match types. Especially when you realise that both the FED and Leica started out with lenses matched to bodies and then, later on, standardised their versions. So I'd expect to be able to mix and match the Zorki and FEDs but no other way.
I don't think FED, KMZ or Zorki have ever claimed in advert's to fit and match Leicas; I don't even expect them to advertise either! Perhaps we've collectively caused the problem by expecting them to match. And complained when they don't.
And, of course, there's a few pennyworth of politics muddled into the mix when, really, we ought to be discussing engineering and do-it-yourself bodges.
The other mystery is why a well known Japanese maker isn't continually being attacked because their 39mm screw thread wasn't matched to Leica's; I've had problems with other bodies, lenses, etc caused by their thread cutting.
Regards, David
As I see it FED, Leica and Zorki are three different makers and from three different countries. So I don't expect their lenses to be mix and match types. Especially when you realise that both the FED and Leica started out with lenses matched to bodies and then, later on, standardised their versions. So I'd expect to be able to mix and match the Zorki and FEDs but no other way.
I don't think FED, KMZ or Zorki have ever claimed in advert's to fit and match Leicas; I don't even expect them to advertise either! Perhaps we've collectively caused the problem by expecting them to match. And complained when they don't.
And, of course, there's a few pennyworth of politics muddled into the mix when, really, we ought to be discussing engineering and do-it-yourself bodges.
The other mystery is why a well known Japanese maker isn't continually being attacked because their 39mm screw thread wasn't matched to Leica's; I've had problems with other bodies, lenses, etc caused by their thread cutting.
Regards, David
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
David,
What Japanese company are you talking about?
What Japanese company are you talking about?
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Canon. Their cameras used 24tpi (as opposed to Leica's 26tpi) until 1947. In 1947 they switched to something in between the two, in 1951 they switched to the Leica standard. Earlier lenses are incompatible.
EthanFrank
Well-known
Hi, guys. Thanks for all the responses. I'm sorry I haven't posted - too busy researching! The Industar 22 has caught my eye. A collapsible lens would be lovely for trying Mike Johnson's Leica Year project.
Now, here's where I'm still completely confused: By searching "Jupiter" or "Industar" on the forum (or Google), there seems to be a line down the middle - some people that swear the lens is almost as good as some Leica equivalents (such as the Elmar) and many others that say that they absolutely can NOT focus on Leica bodies from close to far because of shim issues.
I'm seeing some incredible lens samples, especially with the Industar 22 - am I to believe these people all can only focus their lenses at certain distances? I've even read that the Industar CANNOT focus to infinity, although some picture samples I've seen seem to dispute that.
Help?
Now, here's where I'm still completely confused: By searching "Jupiter" or "Industar" on the forum (or Google), there seems to be a line down the middle - some people that swear the lens is almost as good as some Leica equivalents (such as the Elmar) and many others that say that they absolutely can NOT focus on Leica bodies from close to far because of shim issues.
I'm seeing some incredible lens samples, especially with the Industar 22 - am I to believe these people all can only focus their lenses at certain distances? I've even read that the Industar CANNOT focus to infinity, although some picture samples I've seen seem to dispute that.
Help?
mcaplin
Member
My Jupiter 8 works fine on both my M3 and my M9. I would recommend a J8 from personal experience. The extra stop of the J3 presents more margin for error. Don't know about the industar, but they generally seem less well thought of. J8/M9 example here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_caplin/5697996611/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_caplin/5697996611/
Mr_Flibble
In Tabulas Argenteas Refero
Ethan, it is true the an unmodified Industar-69 will not focus to infinity on an LTM body, but that's because it is designed for the Chaiga half-frame camera. The difference in flange distance is much greater than between the FED/Zorki and Leica cameras.
An industar-22 or Jupiter-8 should not cause you too much trouble.
Jupiter-3 wide-open on a Leica IIIc, the actual focus was a little further back then I was aiming at.
An industar-22 or Jupiter-8 should not cause you too much trouble.
Jupiter-3 wide-open on a Leica IIIc, the actual focus was a little further back then I was aiming at.
250swb
Well-known
I got hold of a mint Jupiter 12 a few months ago and have been using it with my M9 without any problems at all using a CV adapter. It focuses accurately, it has a couple of f/stops where its dead sharp, and a few more when its dreamy, and it has a beautiful contrast range. It wouldn't be top of my list to use with an M on a budget, for that it has to be spend more on a recent 50mm Elmar M, but its not a bad lens.
Steve
Steve