Congratulations to all Americans!

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As an American living abroad (where I can get coverage), I am happy to hear that I now have the right to get coverage in my home country, where a workplace injury has prevented me from being able to obtain insurance.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I recently read an essay written about 100 years ago by Andrew Carnegie, who was one of the wealthiest businessmen in the world at the time. He argued IN FAVOR of high taxes on the rich, and in particular he was in favor of EXTREMELY high estate taxes! Why? Because he said the rich should be encouraged to put their money back into the economy rather than hoarding it, and leaving it to family encourages your descendants to be lazy, uneducated, and morally bankrupt! He gave away most of his fortune after his retirement, endowing thousands of public libraries, schools, and other institutions to benefit the public as a whole.

To those who say "well he was free to give his money away but don't make me do it!" note that Mr. Carnegie explicitly states that the rich who do not give their fortunes away SHOULD be compelled by the force of government to do so! This is a conservative businessman here!

 

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Unfortunately, this is the big problem with the health control bill.

It allows the government to force people to spend their money when they not want to, under direct taxation...

If this stands, then the precedent is set for the government to do exactly as you say: compel, by force of government, to take your property. Which means there is no property...it's all owned by the state.

It's is not Amerika here...yet....

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Unfortunately, this is the big problem with the health control bill.

It allows the government to force people to spend their money when they not want to, under direct taxation...

If this stands, then the precedent is set for the government to do exactly as you say: compel, by force of government, to take your property. Which means there is no property...it's all owned by the state.

It's is not Amerika here...yet....

Private property is a fiction in the US. The government can and always has been able to dispossess you of your property. In reality everything does belong to the government. Here's why I say this: Consider someone who rents a house. What if he stops paying his rent? The landlord evicts him. Kicks him out. Lets say you own land. You have to pay property taxes on it. This is really paying rent to the REAL landlord, the state. If you don't pay your property tax (rent) you get evicted by the state. Landownership is merely paying the state rent for the right to either live on or use for business land or the right to rent it to someone else. If you REALLY owned it, you wouldn't have to pay a yearly fee to the state that must be paid on pain of eviction. That's Rent!

 

[DNG]

Unfortunately, this is the big problem with the health control bill.

It allows the government to force people to spend their money when they not want to, under direct taxation...

If this stands, then the precedent is set for the government to do exactly as you say: compel, by force of government, to take your property. Which means there is no property...it's all owned by the state.

It's is not Amerika here...yet....

Private property is a fiction in the US. The government can and always has been able to dispossess you of your property. In reality everything does belong to the government. Here's why I say this: Consider someone who rents a house. What if he stops paying his rent? The landlord evicts him. Kicks him out. Lets say you own land. You have to pay property taxes on it. This is really paying rent to the REAL landlord, the state. If you don't pay your property tax (rent) you get evicted by the state. Landownership is merely paying the state rent for the right to either live on or use for business land or the right to rent it to someone else. If you REALLY owned it, you wouldn't have to pay a yearly fee to the state that must be paid on pain of eviction. That's Rent!

AND, the government can take "your" land if they deem it necessary for public improvement and expansion.

 

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The feds can't just take property -- without compensation. Although Kelo, as I mentioned in a previous post, is a pretty nasty recent development...but it still doesn't cover the feds taking it.

Property tax is a state tax, not a federal tax. What you describe is completely legal within the law...state law. And not all states have the same property tax laws.

But again, under the Constitution, what is not enumerated is left to the states or the people. A direct federal tax is not allowed (other than the 16th amendment.) If this is broken by health control law, there is no more Constitution...

In addition, what you describe Carnegie as saying would apply not only to real property but to bank accounts, stocks, and everything else.

 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk

 

[antiquark]

I recently read an essay written about 100 years ago by Andrew Carnegie...

I think that's one of the great failures of modern politics. You will not find any politician anywhere who will say that taxes are good for society.

Plus they make zero effort to educate people about where their tax money goes. Thus you have rumors that it all ends in the pockets of welfare queens driving cadillacs!

It's so bad that people receiving government money (like tea party leader Michael Vanderboegh) actually rail on about how taxes are theft, taxes are slavery, etc. Unbelievable.

Not sure how it got so bad, "tax" is now a four-letter word.

 

[remphoto]

I think that's one of the great failures of modern politics. You will not find any politician anywhere who will say that taxes are good for society.

Plus they make zero effort to educate people about where their tax money goes. Thus you have rumors that it all ends in the pockets of welfare queens driving cadillacs!

It's so bad that people receiving government money (like tea party leader Michael Vanderboegh) actually rail on about how taxes are theft, taxes are slavery, etc. Unbelievable.

Not sure how it got so bad, "tax" is now a four-letter word.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean it has just become a four letter word? The American Colonists went to war over taxation. 🙂

As to the welfare queens -- OK -- that might be stretching it a bit, but how many of us have stood in line behind a person with a fist full of food stamps and two shopping carts? One cart is full of eligible food stamp and WIC items and the other one has items such as cigarettes, beer, lottery tickets, the National Enquirer and junk food. Small example of a much larger problem.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

What do you mean it has just become a four letter word? The American Colonists went to war over taxation. 🙂

That's a distortion of the facts. The colonists went to war because the British Parliament levied taxes on the colonies without allowing the colonies to elect representatives to Parliament. The issue was not taxes, it was taxation without representation. The new USA government levied taxes to pay the expense of governing an independent country. The difference was that American voters chose, and could throw out next election, their representatives in congress who levied taxes. They couldn't do that under British rule because the British treated them like conquered people instead of the free British citizens that they were. American colonists who moved back to Britain immediately became voters who had a member of parliament representing the district they lived in.

 

[dmr]

One of the most important functions of a democracy is to decide 'the budget' and 'who's gonna pay'.

And that "who" who should pay is always somebody other than me. Right? 🙂

One thing that did kinda p*ss me off this year, tax-wise, is that very quietly they bumped down most wage-earners' withholding over the year, including mine. When I did my taxes last week, instead of my expected yearly allowance from Uncle Sam, I had to pay $50 (and pick up the garbage in the snow). 🙂

What we see a lot here in Europe is conservative parties playing on anti immigration feelings and race hate.

Wow, that sounds familiar! 🙁

Around here it seems like the prejudice is aimed mostly at those of Hispanic descent and, of all things, Native Americans, as in those who were here long before we Caucasians ever were!

 

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That's no "yearly allowance" when you get a refund. It's an interest-free loan you give to the government. 🙂

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

That's no "yearly allowance" when you get a refund. It's an interest-free loan you give to the government. 🙂

I think most people see it as a savings plan, lol. Because they can't discipline themselves to save themselves, the excess taxes they pay kind of forces them too. Unlike the bank, though, the IRS does not include interest in your refund, as you noted.

Some people do get refunds that are more then they paid in, thanks to tax credits that people can get for various things. The Earned Income Tax Credit for low income families is the most well known but there are others, some of which benefit people with more money. Generally speaking though, most tax refunds are simply giving the citizen back the excess he paid in during the year.

 

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That's a distortion of the facts. The colonists went to war because the British Parliament levied taxes on the colonies without allowing the colonies to elect representatives to Parliament. The issue was not taxes, it was taxation without representation. The new USA government levied taxes to pay the expense of governing an independent country. The difference was that American voters chose, and could throw out next election, their representatives in congress who levied taxes. They couldn't do that under British rule because the British treated them like conquered people instead of the free British citizens that they were. American colonists who moved back to Britain immediately became voters who had a member of parliament representing the district they lived in.

My bad for not fully explaining the obvious. But since you brought it up you made the point about taxation without representation, isn't that what the current teapartiers are all about? Bho and company are cramming through new taxes against the clear will of the people. And like the Colonists their modern counterparts are mad and aren't going to take it. I'm glad to see that most American have not caved to the socialistic direction bho is trying to take us. And we do have an election in November to remove the traitors

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

My bad for not fully explaining the obvious. But since you brought it up you made the point about taxation without representation, isn't that what the current teapartiers are all about? Bho and company are cramming through new taxes against the clear will of the people. And like the Colonists their modern counterparts are mad and aren't going to take it. I'm glad to see that most American have not caved to the socialistic direction bho is trying to take us. And we do have an election in November to remove the traitors

Nope, you're totally wrong. Obama was elected. Get over it. So were all the members of congress and the senate. They're not traitors, they're politicians who will either be re-elected or defeated as the people they represent in their home states and districts see fit. I think a lot of Americans forget that members of the two houses of congress do not have to represent THEM. They have to represent the people in their district (the House of Representatives) or their state (the Senate). No one else. Don't like Nancy Pelosi or the other Democrats that the conservatives keep whining about? Unless YOU live in their district, there's nothing you can do about them. If you do live in their constituency, vote against them when they come up for re-election.

 

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You don't have to live in their district to do something about them. You can donate to their opponent, volunteer in many capacities, start a blog showing her hypocrisy using her own words, any number of things. 🙂

 

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Nope, you're totally wrong. Obama was elected. Get over it. So were all the members of congress and the senate. They're not traitors, they're politicians who will either be re-elected or defeated as the people they represent in their home states and districts see fit. I think a lot of Americans forget that members of the two houses of congress do not have to represent THEM. They have to represent the people in their district (the House of Representatives) or their state (the Senate). No one else. Don't like Nancy Pelosi or the other Democrats that the conservatives keep whining about? Unless YOU live in their district, there's nothing you can do about them. If you do live in their constituency, vote against them when they come up for re-election.

Bho might have won by a majority but the moderate swing voters who put him over the top are gone. His approval has tanked and people are realizing how radical is his "change" mantra. He is out of step with the majority of American voters.

You are right about who congress represents and is accountable to. And the ones who caved to their party rather than the will of their constituents were traitors to the people and will pay the ultimate price in November. Speaking of which I just saw a list of earmarks these folks received for their votes. That is our tax dollars being used to buy votes.

 

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The earmarks that Pelosi was going to do away with:

“Breaking with many Democrats, Ms. Pelosi also spoke out against earmarking billions of dollars for home-state projects, a practice she calls a ‘monster’ that hurts Congress. ‘I’d get rid of all of them,’ she says. ‘None of them is worth the skepticism, the cynicism the public has . . . and the fiscal irresponsibility of it.’” – Wall Street Journal, July 13, 2006

“Ranking Democrats vowed in December to put a moratorium on earmarks; instead, a record number infect legislation pending in Congress, with 32,000 requests this year, compared with about 13,000 in 2006 …. Ideally, congressional Democrats would keep their pledge to ban earmarks altogether.” – Riverside CA Press-Enterprise, June 20, 2007

 

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OK who else besides me and dfoo are going to push for the flat tax?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhUOpNve1bY&feature=player_embedded

 

[40oz]

OK who else besides me and dfoo are going to push for the flat tax?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhUOpNve1bY&feature=player_embedded

You're going to have to come up with a better slogan than "Vote for a flat tax because I'm crappy at math!"

The only people behind a flat tax are idiots to think everyone else is as dumb as they are. Give it up. Hire an accountant if you can't do your own taxes.