fergus
Well-known
Indeed. Look at the number of people buying Harley Davidson t-shirts etc... I wonder if 1/100 actually own one of the bikes?
Conspicuous Consumption
- Thread starter Bill Pierce
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Indeed. Look at the number of people buying Harley Davidson t-shirts etc... I wonder if 1/100 actually own one of the bikes?
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
It was HD that came to mind. I used to be friends with the importer up here and he was telling me that when Harley suddenly became ultra successful again and was the brand to be seen on, the HD branded clothing also started selling in enourmous quantities to the point where they could barely keep up with demand.
A friend of mine recently bought his girlfriend some Ducati Logo G-srings to wear ... he likes Ducatis! 😛
Rui Morais de Sousa
Established
Conspicuous Consumption
I know that I have a certain tendency to make long posts, but I just think that I should better explain my point of view. You can always skip to the next post...
Around 1987 I applied for a job as photographer at the Institut of Art History of the University of Heidelberg (Kunsthistorisches Institut). I still was driving cabs at night. Some other 36 people were also applying for the job. They came from all over Germany, lots of them with a Meisterbrief. I was there Friday afternoon, Monday morning I had the job. The weekend I had spent developing the two 120 b&w rolls I had to make of a bronze bust, and the prints of it. Photographing this dark shining bust was the practical test everybody needed to do, besides showing a portfolio, etc. So much for the introduction.
When I started working there, beeing already a Leitz/Leica user, I
was very pleased to see that the studio in the institut was filled with lots of Leitz equipment: two Reprovits (the "good" ones, not the simple copy stands, each with a Leica MDa and Focotar lens, then a couple of other Leica cameras (I remember a nice IIIG kit with some lenses), etc., etc. In our darkrooms we had a Focomat Ic and a Focomat IIc (I really loved it), and a Durst Laborator for 4x5". As I said before, personaly I was using Leitz cameras too, so was the other photogapher at the institut. She also had her own Leica equipment.
Once a year, a technician would drive from Wetzlar and would check our enlargers, etc.
So as a Leica user, you fellt that you were dealing with a company commited to serve professionals, making equipment for professionals. You were proud of using the best 35mm stuff, period!
Sadly, I see nowadays a much shorter Leica catalog. Where are those specialized pieces of gear? Where is the possibility of doing professional macro photography, long lenses photography (no, I don't think that Leica R is up to the competition, but that is another thema), enlarging, etc., etc. For sure market niches, but in my opinion important ones. There are still lots of instituts in the world, lots of police departments, lots of peace and army forces, criminal investigation, etc., etc. Where do they buy their stuff? Hardly still by Leica...
That's why I find it ridiculous that they come up with such a cameo of a product, that has nothing to do with the real things they once did.
Let me explain a little more:if I had seen them advertising the possibility of buying a green NO-limited-edition M camera together with the introduction of a new Visoflex and, say a new 560mm Telyt for nature photographers, or something other, I surely would cry out loud "Hurra! Congratulations Leica, that's the way to go!". But a green M and a shining chrome exclusive 28mm? Oh c'mon, don't joke with me! For the lions, like somebody else very well posted?
Niche markets? For sure, but behind those niche markets maybe you sell something else, one more camera, one more lens. And you build up your reputation! Seeing the clients go somewhere else to buy those things, surely doesn't help either.
Kienzle Phototechnik (who makes a similar Focomat II enlarger), is happily selling those enlargers that Leica doesn't sell no more to all those institutions and photographers out there that still need / want one.
Although not mandatory to my choice of equipment, sure it did influence me on my choice to see that people like Bill Pierce, Robert Frank, H.C.-Bresson, Josef Koudelka, Bruce Davidson, etc., were using Leica stuff.
For sure I don't give a damm if the princess of dreamland uses one! The same goes for a Hollywood star, or pop star, or whatever star might shine in the glamour world.
Please, don't understand me wrong when I say that I don't like to see Leica transformed in a fashion company. I don't have nothing against fashion, I just don't think that Leica should fit in.
I even like very much some fashion photography: Jeanloup Sieff (a phantastic photographer who did some great work using Leicas for instance), and some others I do very much like the work, people like Patrick Demarchelier, Peter Lindbergh or Albert Watson, etc.
But can somebody explain to me how they could make a Leica Manual these days, like the one where Mr. Pierce wrote so many chapters? Would Bill have to write about the Leica à la carte program?
Let me say it loud: this thing of Leica à la carte kotz mich an!
The german speaking people will understand very well what I say, as well as the Herren in Leica management...
Now allow me one more side note, somehow still related with this topic:
A short time after I started my job at the Art History Institut, I had an exhibition at the Leica Galerie in Wetzlar. One month long. Than they called me and asked if I could let the photographs stay one more month. They wanted to put them on the walls of their new plant in Solms. That's how I new that they were going to open a new plant. And my photos were the ones on the wall! By Leica! As you can imagine, I was very happy to say yes...
On the occasion, the factory one Saturday made Tag der öffene
Tür (a day were the public can visit theinstallation). So I drove with a friend to Solms to see my photographs hanging on the wall and taking the chance to visit the plant. It was a very nice day, with bier und wurst, lots of baloons with Leica logo, happy faces everywhere, and a very interesting visit to a brand new shining plant. One of this days I will try to kick my lazyness and copy the images of the exhibition and post them in my blog, in case somebody wishes to see. The thema was Iberia with b/w photographs of Portugal and Spain.
I drove back home very happy for my personal "(little) success", but also firm believing that Leica, after all the difficulties (remember, some years earlier they wanted to stop M production!), was finally on the right track. Modernizing with "body and soul".
Selling to fashion gimmicks doesn't seem to me to be the right track for a company with such a respectable heritage.
Hey, but that is ME.
Rui
I know that I have a certain tendency to make long posts, but I just think that I should better explain my point of view. You can always skip to the next post...
Around 1987 I applied for a job as photographer at the Institut of Art History of the University of Heidelberg (Kunsthistorisches Institut). I still was driving cabs at night. Some other 36 people were also applying for the job. They came from all over Germany, lots of them with a Meisterbrief. I was there Friday afternoon, Monday morning I had the job. The weekend I had spent developing the two 120 b&w rolls I had to make of a bronze bust, and the prints of it. Photographing this dark shining bust was the practical test everybody needed to do, besides showing a portfolio, etc. So much for the introduction.
When I started working there, beeing already a Leitz/Leica user, I
was very pleased to see that the studio in the institut was filled with lots of Leitz equipment: two Reprovits (the "good" ones, not the simple copy stands, each with a Leica MDa and Focotar lens, then a couple of other Leica cameras (I remember a nice IIIG kit with some lenses), etc., etc. In our darkrooms we had a Focomat Ic and a Focomat IIc (I really loved it), and a Durst Laborator for 4x5". As I said before, personaly I was using Leitz cameras too, so was the other photogapher at the institut. She also had her own Leica equipment.
Once a year, a technician would drive from Wetzlar and would check our enlargers, etc.
So as a Leica user, you fellt that you were dealing with a company commited to serve professionals, making equipment for professionals. You were proud of using the best 35mm stuff, period!
Sadly, I see nowadays a much shorter Leica catalog. Where are those specialized pieces of gear? Where is the possibility of doing professional macro photography, long lenses photography (no, I don't think that Leica R is up to the competition, but that is another thema), enlarging, etc., etc. For sure market niches, but in my opinion important ones. There are still lots of instituts in the world, lots of police departments, lots of peace and army forces, criminal investigation, etc., etc. Where do they buy their stuff? Hardly still by Leica...
That's why I find it ridiculous that they come up with such a cameo of a product, that has nothing to do with the real things they once did.
Let me explain a little more:if I had seen them advertising the possibility of buying a green NO-limited-edition M camera together with the introduction of a new Visoflex and, say a new 560mm Telyt for nature photographers, or something other, I surely would cry out loud "Hurra! Congratulations Leica, that's the way to go!". But a green M and a shining chrome exclusive 28mm? Oh c'mon, don't joke with me! For the lions, like somebody else very well posted?
Niche markets? For sure, but behind those niche markets maybe you sell something else, one more camera, one more lens. And you build up your reputation! Seeing the clients go somewhere else to buy those things, surely doesn't help either.
Kienzle Phototechnik (who makes a similar Focomat II enlarger), is happily selling those enlargers that Leica doesn't sell no more to all those institutions and photographers out there that still need / want one.
Although not mandatory to my choice of equipment, sure it did influence me on my choice to see that people like Bill Pierce, Robert Frank, H.C.-Bresson, Josef Koudelka, Bruce Davidson, etc., were using Leica stuff.
For sure I don't give a damm if the princess of dreamland uses one! The same goes for a Hollywood star, or pop star, or whatever star might shine in the glamour world.
Please, don't understand me wrong when I say that I don't like to see Leica transformed in a fashion company. I don't have nothing against fashion, I just don't think that Leica should fit in.
I even like very much some fashion photography: Jeanloup Sieff (a phantastic photographer who did some great work using Leicas for instance), and some others I do very much like the work, people like Patrick Demarchelier, Peter Lindbergh or Albert Watson, etc.
But can somebody explain to me how they could make a Leica Manual these days, like the one where Mr. Pierce wrote so many chapters? Would Bill have to write about the Leica à la carte program?
Let me say it loud: this thing of Leica à la carte kotz mich an!
The german speaking people will understand very well what I say, as well as the Herren in Leica management...
Now allow me one more side note, somehow still related with this topic:
A short time after I started my job at the Art History Institut, I had an exhibition at the Leica Galerie in Wetzlar. One month long. Than they called me and asked if I could let the photographs stay one more month. They wanted to put them on the walls of their new plant in Solms. That's how I new that they were going to open a new plant. And my photos were the ones on the wall! By Leica! As you can imagine, I was very happy to say yes...
On the occasion, the factory one Saturday made Tag der öffene
Tür (a day were the public can visit theinstallation). So I drove with a friend to Solms to see my photographs hanging on the wall and taking the chance to visit the plant. It was a very nice day, with bier und wurst, lots of baloons with Leica logo, happy faces everywhere, and a very interesting visit to a brand new shining plant. One of this days I will try to kick my lazyness and copy the images of the exhibition and post them in my blog, in case somebody wishes to see. The thema was Iberia with b/w photographs of Portugal and Spain.
I drove back home very happy for my personal "(little) success", but also firm believing that Leica, after all the difficulties (remember, some years earlier they wanted to stop M production!), was finally on the right track. Modernizing with "body and soul".
Selling to fashion gimmicks doesn't seem to me to be the right track for a company with such a respectable heritage.
Hey, but that is ME.
Rui
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Officially the R3 Safari
They also made olive green M bodies for the Bundeswehr (German Army).
Chuck Albertson
Well-known
Perfect for crawling through the bush for that environmental portrait of a pride of lions, and then getting stomped by an elephant.
They'll likely sell all 500 to collectors (the intended market), and I hope they do. Leica could use the cash, will pay down their R&D costs on the M8, and keep the production line going.
They'll likely sell all 500 to collectors (the intended market), and I hope they do. Leica could use the cash, will pay down their R&D costs on the M8, and keep the production line going.
kdemas
Enjoy Life.
Personally I see nothing wrong with Leica putting out this type of "Special Edition". It takes next to no real time to whip one up (all cosmetic changes), the investment required from the company to do something like this does not in any way hamper other development. If some collectors want to buy them up, I see absolutely no harm in it.
If it was a major drain on resources that affected other key plans and products, then I would feel much differently. I do not believe that's the case with this kind of Special Edition.
Do I want one, nope. I wouldn't mind buying that special edition MP3 from a few years ago, however 🙂
Anyway, back to work!
Kent
If it was a major drain on resources that affected other key plans and products, then I would feel much differently. I do not believe that's the case with this kind of Special Edition.
Do I want one, nope. I wouldn't mind buying that special edition MP3 from a few years ago, however 🙂
Anyway, back to work!
Kent
photogdave
Shops local
The Safari editions are part of the company's history. I don't see these as being in the same league as "Sultan Of Brunei" special editions etc.
Gee, I don't recall such a stink when Voigtlander released the olive Bessa R2!
Gee, I don't recall such a stink when Voigtlander released the olive Bessa R2!
Dogman
Veteran
Olive Bessa R2 didn't cost 20% of a decent annual income.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I thought the green Bessa was some sort of special commemorative edition ... (correct me if I'm wrong) ... and it certainly wasn't released by a company trying very hard to keep it's head above water financially at that particular time.
This is Leica trying to unload 500 cameras as quickly as possible to put some cash back in the coffers and good luck to them if they do so because they obviously need to do something to stir sales along a bit!
That comparrison doesn't work for me either I'm afraid! 🙂
This is Leica trying to unload 500 cameras as quickly as possible to put some cash back in the coffers and good luck to them if they do so because they obviously need to do something to stir sales along a bit!
That comparrison doesn't work for me either I'm afraid! 🙂
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photogdave
Shops local
But it didn't cost more than a black Bessa either. The M8 Safari set doesn't cost significantly more than the individual items sold separately.
Why is this such a big deal? 😕
Bassism
Well-known
To be honest, I kinda dig the olive green. Were I a multi-millionaire, I might buy one.
I don't really see why anybody should complain about it though. As Kent said, it takes essentially no time or money to produce these, and they're some easy money for the company. If this is how they need to make a few bucks to pay for developing the S system, then good on them. The way I see it, these trifling non-professional special editions are a good way for them to afford to come out with the ground breaking pro stuff everyone likes to see.
I don't really see why anybody should complain about it though. As Kent said, it takes essentially no time or money to produce these, and they're some easy money for the company. If this is how they need to make a few bucks to pay for developing the S system, then good on them. The way I see it, these trifling non-professional special editions are a good way for them to afford to come out with the ground breaking pro stuff everyone likes to see.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Nor should it ... green paint is cheap after all! 😛
Seriously, I hope it works for them. I have no desire to own a digital camera made by a company that no longer exists. Not a good scenario because I intend keeping mine for eternity at least!
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alan davus
Well-known
I actually like the thing. Why is it that cameras can ONLY be produced in black or chrome? If I was in the market for the M8 and the safari was no dearer I'd buy it in a flash.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I have to confess to kind of liking the neutral look of the green also.
Maybe older users will be able to drag their lovely safari suits out of the cupboard for the total experience!
Just looking at one of the pics it looks like the camera is sitting on the bonnet of a Landrover Defender ... they really are selling an image and photographic style that lets face it, the camera just ain't suitable for! 😛
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I can see the headlines now:
"Tourist mauled by lion pride attempting to get close up shot with 28mm lens in Kruger National Park ... manufacturer forced to issue warning to customers with all future sales!"
"Tourist mauled by lion pride attempting to get close up shot with 28mm lens in Kruger National Park ... manufacturer forced to issue warning to customers with all future sales!"
R
ruben
Guest
To me it seems that the intended market are those money making mercenary soldiers to rent, who may find the olive color as matching the inherent required camouflage.
My symphaties are with Leica company which must be in a very serious struggle to survive.
My symphaties are with Leica company which must be in a very serious struggle to survive.
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