Deklari
Well-known
Deklari
Well-known
I have other question. Do anyone have any information about speed setting knob, this part missing on my camera. I have made one, but still need information about "red" and "white" dot location on winding knob.
If pull knob where is a hole (see red arrow on picture) and where is dots (on clock scale) For example: hole on 12 and "red" dots on 9 and "white" on 6..
If pull knob where is a hole (see red arrow on picture) and where is dots (on clock scale) For example: hole on 12 and "red" dots on 9 and "white" on 6..
Dralowid
Michael
Some years ago I phoned Ed Trotska (spelling???) in the UK. He is well known for working on Kievs and Contax II I think.
Has anyone got his number? I'd like to ask him if he has a 'box of useful bits'!
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Deklari, I could take pictures of my speed knob but I'm not sure if it would be much use and I'd rather not mess around with it while the rest of the camera is in pieces.
Also it is not the same version as yours and this is just the sort of detail that might have changed (?). I see you have the last version of the Contax, I'm sure someone here will have one.
Has anyone got his number? I'd like to ask him if he has a 'box of useful bits'!
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Deklari, I could take pictures of my speed knob but I'm not sure if it would be much use and I'd rather not mess around with it while the rest of the camera is in pieces.
Also it is not the same version as yours and this is just the sort of detail that might have changed (?). I see you have the last version of the Contax, I'm sure someone here will have one.
Dralowid
Michael
Just a thought (and off topic somewhat).
If one does have to sacrifice a Kiev to find a spring for the shutter roller one can also make use of the lens mount to make a Contax to Nex etc adaptor with a little ingenuity.
Michael
If one does have to sacrifice a Kiev to find a spring for the shutter roller one can also make use of the lens mount to make a Contax to Nex etc adaptor with a little ingenuity.
Michael
nhchen
Nathan
Hi Dekari,
I've got the same version as your one, a I (f) I think. I changed the shutter ribbons on it a few years ago and it's been working well so far. I just took screws off the speed knob on mine to check where the red and white dots are...
The white dot is right where your red arrow is, and the red one seems exactly a quarter of a turn to the right of it. So if the white is at 6 o'clock, the red is at 3 o'clock. (And the hole(your red arrow) is also at 6 o'clock.
Hope that helps
Nathan
Erik van Straten
Veteran
There is a red dot @ 9 o'clock, with "Z" or "B" @ 11 o'clock and a white dot @ 7 o'clock and another white dot @ 4 o'clock and another red dot @ 1 o'clock. Not exactly, but it comes close. So a total of two red dots and two white dots.
Erik.
Erik.
Deklari
Well-known
Grate! Thanks Nathan and Erik.
One more question. Why I need to set to "B"/"Z" when changing ribbons?
Dralowid
Michael
Roller and springs...a few pictures to support Deklari's drawings following Grytpype's instructions both of which have been a great help.
The Contax I does have a 'soft pad' it is chamfered to help the blind lay flat.
At the start I didn't realise the significance of the central slot in the blind...
IMG_2832 by dralowid, on Flickr
Removing the end caps. Again I didn't know these came off. I wonder if it would be easier to sew loops into new ribbons and slide them on having removed the caps. Surely easier than wrestling with them on the shutter???
IMG_2834 by dralowid, on Flickr
When I did the ribbons I sewed them on quite tight and they have been difficult to get off. I don't know if I can get them on again...
IMG_2836 by dralowid, on Flickr
What didn't help is the increase in diameter that prevents them from sliding off. You can see I have started to slide the blind off.
IMG_2837 by dralowid, on Flickr
This picture tells a story. I didn't realise that the brass band around the centre of the roller was a sliding clip and didn't quite understand Grytpype's instructions (maybe I am not the sharpest lens in the bag). So I happily slid the shutter off before realising that I had left the last 'slat' on the roller. Touch and go for a moment or two but I have the blind back together now!
IMG_2840 by dralowid, on Flickr
Finally the central spring exposed. Now it may be just wishful thinking but as far as I could tell the hook 'anchor' on the left did not appear to be hooked in and therefore anchored. Who knows? I will fiddle with it and see if I can find a break but it does look a mess. I reckon replacing it is well beyond me, my fingers are too big!
IMG_2842 by dralowid, on Flickr
When blowing this picture up just now I realise the end of the spring should be neatly in the slot. I've done this now but there only appears to be around 3-4mm of anchorage. Is this correct or is this my problem!?!
IMG_2842-001 by dralowid, on Flickr
Time for a glass of something...
Michael
The Contax I does have a 'soft pad' it is chamfered to help the blind lay flat.
At the start I didn't realise the significance of the central slot in the blind...
IMG_2832 by dralowid, on FlickrRemoving the end caps. Again I didn't know these came off. I wonder if it would be easier to sew loops into new ribbons and slide them on having removed the caps. Surely easier than wrestling with them on the shutter???
IMG_2834 by dralowid, on FlickrWhen I did the ribbons I sewed them on quite tight and they have been difficult to get off. I don't know if I can get them on again...
IMG_2836 by dralowid, on FlickrWhat didn't help is the increase in diameter that prevents them from sliding off. You can see I have started to slide the blind off.
IMG_2837 by dralowid, on FlickrThis picture tells a story. I didn't realise that the brass band around the centre of the roller was a sliding clip and didn't quite understand Grytpype's instructions (maybe I am not the sharpest lens in the bag). So I happily slid the shutter off before realising that I had left the last 'slat' on the roller. Touch and go for a moment or two but I have the blind back together now!
IMG_2840 by dralowid, on FlickrFinally the central spring exposed. Now it may be just wishful thinking but as far as I could tell the hook 'anchor' on the left did not appear to be hooked in and therefore anchored. Who knows? I will fiddle with it and see if I can find a break but it does look a mess. I reckon replacing it is well beyond me, my fingers are too big!
IMG_2842 by dralowid, on FlickrWhen blowing this picture up just now I realise the end of the spring should be neatly in the slot. I've done this now but there only appears to be around 3-4mm of anchorage. Is this correct or is this my problem!?!
IMG_2842-001 by dralowid, on FlickrTime for a glass of something...
Michael
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Deklari
Well-known
3-4mm anchorage is correct
My spring looks exactly the same. My only question is if this mass make all problems? I also thinking to cut some mess spring part and re-hook good part at top. But this will change spring length, and maybe will not work.
Dralowid
Michael
Well, I've been having a look at it and as yet I can't make it produce any worthwhile tension. Because it is a mess I think it just binds up. Will keep try and maybe, as you said by cutting some of the junk out it might improve...
Grytpype
Well-known
David, Make sure the coils of the spring run in sequence, if you see what I mean. It's possible for these springs to get sort of tangled, so that, for example, the second turn of the spring gets the wrong side of the fourth, and things can look pretty horrible.
If you want to try dismantling further:
This is as far as I have gone in stripping one. If the Contax I is the same, you can strip it this far from your present position, David, just by removing a tiny screw that holds one of the rollers to its bearing: it's the left hand roller in the Contax II/III/Kiev.
You will be able to see how difficult or easy it might be to remove the outer spring. In the spindle I've shown (Kiev 4A) the tail of the spring went through the spindle, round 180°, and back through it again. They weren't taking a chance it might escape! I can't remember if Contax were the same.
If you want to try dismantling further:
This is as far as I have gone in stripping one. If the Contax I is the same, you can strip it this far from your present position, David, just by removing a tiny screw that holds one of the rollers to its bearing: it's the left hand roller in the Contax II/III/Kiev.
You will be able to see how difficult or easy it might be to remove the outer spring. In the spindle I've shown (Kiev 4A) the tail of the spring went through the spindle, round 180°, and back through it again. They weren't taking a chance it might escape! I can't remember if Contax were the same.
Deklari
Well-known
Make sense, Thanks
In the spindle I've shown (Kiev 4A) the tail of the spring went through the spindle, round 180°, and back through it again. They weren't taking a chance it might escape! I can't remember if Contax were the same.[/quote]
Same in Contax I. Only problem is very stiff spring to "round 180°, and back through it again". I always deform few coils spring during this installation and create mess again.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Is it possible to change the tension of the central spring independant from the springs at the sides? If so, it is possible to give one of the curtains a different tension.
Erik.
Erik.
Deklari
Well-known
Only if rotate left central "cap" what have central spring anchor. But I guess it will be same effect if hold central axes of whole roller and rotate lower curtain around roller few time before installing ribbons.
Dralowid
Michael
That's why I think it is so important that when 'at rest' the three tensions are roughly the same. Shortening the central spring would upset this.
And the fact that the central spring is a double helical shows Zeiss trying to make it have the same characteristics as the outer springs in a smaller width. (Well that's what I think but maybe I'm completely wrong)
I have not yet worked out how to set up a reliable test of the roller and springs on the workbench but will attempt something.
Michael
Erik van Straten
Veteran
I think it is very strange that there aren't any service manuals or construction books about these cameras. OK, the Russians took everything, but I can't believe the Germans were so stupid not to make any copies of those.
Erik.
Erik.
Deklari
Well-known
I think problem with new Contax II and III. C.Zeiss usually didn't keep old models on the market. When they start production of II and III, not necessary to keep old Contax I anymore, plus WWII, they start a new line of II/III, and Contax I just "forgotten". However it should be somewhere a service manual. Russian begin production of Kiev as copy Contax II and III , they also copy other Zeiss's model Supper Ikonta (Moskva2), Leica II and III (Fed, Zorki), but never Contax I, why?
Pioneer
Veteran
I have had the opportunity to study Maizenberg's repair manual for Russian cameras and he discusses the Kiev 2, 3 and 4 cameras in fair detail, but he never gets into the barrel itself or the replacement/adjustment of those springs. I suspect that this was considered a "modular part" and was replaced completely by technicians rather than disassembled and repaired.