Craft vs. Collection

Craft vs. Collection

  • Take Pictures as an Excuse to Collect Cameras

    Votes: 10 15.4%
  • Collect Cameras Because Helps Better Personal Craft Of Photography

    Votes: 55 84.6%

  • Total voters
    65
I got into photography for the pictures, and that has really sustained the interest all along. But my education is split between mechanical engineering and art. I'm a natural gear-head, so I enjoy the equipment too. I got into collecting other stuff in the 90's, so I know what a black hole that can be. I'm determined not to collect camera gear, but I've had a couple of lapses with old Pentaxes and Olympus Pens. Gotta be strong, gotta resist those acquisitional impulses! Excessive equipment all needs occasional exercise, and that may not be the best reason to be out shooting.
 
I'm not a collector; only if I've managed to sell something old, then I allow myself to buy something new.. I've set myself a personal max. of 4 cameras. Each one in a decidedly different domain of photography (one RF, one DSLR, one 6x6SLR, and one digital ultra compact)..
 
Neither, really. I do have some 10-15 cameras lying about but the last "collector" I bought was a Kiev several months ago now. The last before that was a Leica M2, almost a year before the Kiev.

I'm not a collector just for collecting's sake. And I don't shoot to collect cameras. My main cameras are the R-D1 and the Eos 300D now. The rest just looks nice on the cupboard. I have no plans to buy any other cameras any time soon. Perhaps a 15mm lens, but that's it.
 
Second option, but I haven't voted becasue there's a caveat: I don't know if it 'helps' as such.

I take pictures first.

It can't be called a collection because it's still in single figures (if only just), and because they all get used regularly to take pictures with.

But I really dig thet gear. Oh yes I do. 😀
 
I have a very small collection of cameras, because I like to take pictures. And i wanted to take pictures before i had a camera, thus my collection started because of an urge to photograph. But I put craft (or art) before collection. (It's a lot cheaper 😛 )

Joris
 
I find it fascinating that on this forum where everyone here has at least two cameras, several lenses and discuss GAS all the time, that most everyone considers it foolish, wasteful or distasteful to collect cameras. Personally I guess I'll be the one to fly in the face of convention and say proudly "Sure I collect cameras. Not just as some shelf queen to be admired and dusted. I use most of mine, not every one or every day. I don't oooh and aaah over them, can't name every variant of every lens and wouldn't really want to. I've always figured 1. If you can afford it without shortchanging your family life 2. If you actually run film through them occasionally to be sure they work still 3. If it gets you out of the house to do something you enjoy and 4. If it helps you to see the real beauty that surrounds us every day and goes unnoticed, then it's a good thing and if people look down their nose because of it more's the pity for them. Just my take and probably the main reason I don't post much anymore. Seems like unless you're a Leica buff (and hey who wouldn't be, they're great cameras, just not for me), gear acquisition of any sort is considered squandering your cash.
 
I don't know your name, but I would like to thank "weirdcollector." I was becoming desperate thinking that, in two threads, not a single person was understanding what I was saying. It is perfectly fine to be a collector, and a significant portion of people on this website most certainly are. Likewise, a significant portion of collectors on this site are ashamed of it, and try to justify themselves at every turn. I think that collectors are indespensible. Not only do they harbor immense knowledge about photography and photographic equipment, but as someone said earlier, they offer a safe haven for classic, used cameras. Kudos to someone who can admit it. I just don't see why it is so taboo....
 
I'm new around here, been looking in for a while and I think this might be a good way to introduce myself I got into photography about ten years ago purely by chance. My interest (obsession?) was always in mechanical stuff; could be a car or steam engine or an old typewriter. Anything. One day I found a 30's Exakta an antiques fair and bought it because it was cheap and it was an interesting machine, never intended using it. This was followed by a couple more and by this time I was beginning to think that perhaps I should actually learn how to use these things. Got a couple of books, started taking a few pics and found I really enjoyed it. After a while I enroled on a basic course at college and then went on to do a three years of evening classes for a City and Guilds qualification. The machines still fascinate me, they're superb pieces of ingenious design and precision engineering but ultimately it's the pictures that matter.
 
kzim56 said:
I struggle with this sometimes. I insist that I'm not a camera collector. I want to become a better photographer. .... I can afford some of the photo equipment I longed for as a teen. It still works great and with a little skill outperforms more modern stuff.
Karl


I quoted the parts of Karl's post that match what I feel. I really don't WANT to collect, as I'd rather use things, and from a collecting stanpoint, use can detract from value of true collectables. However, buying up old user cameras to try them out seems to work for me.
 
I consider myself a photographer first and not really that much of a gearhead but I don't consider collecting foolish or wasteful at all. I'll admit it, it's sometimes more fun to play with a new toy than the same old toy every day so I've acquired a few cameras that I've always been interested in to scratch my curiosity. Along the way, I've actually managed to learn a few things that I couldn't have if I hadn't bought the gear. Also, my academic training is as an historian so I appreciate preserving the cameras and techniques of those who came before us.

The "one camera, one lens" philosophy has its place, I suppose, but frankly, I feel that philosophy can be as limiting as it is liberating. It's pretty hard to do macro photography with a rangefinder and I certainly wouldn't want to try wildlife or bird photography with a view camera.

There's enough room for collectors, photographers, and those of us who are a bit of both here, I should think.
 
I´m not going to vote in the poll as I don´t think it allows me to vote the two options. And I also need another option.

In fact I don´t know if I am a collector or not. I do not buy cameras on a collector basis or purpose, rather I just buy cameras which are in bad condition to restore them (if I can) and later to shoot with them. I´m also trying to improve as amateur photographer.
Actually my count goes up to 23 cameras, some of them bought just because I liked them for some particular reason ( only specification is: M42 mount SLRs and lenses, and Contax-Kiev mount cameras and lenses), some other because they were a camera I wanted for many years. Some of my cameras are in perfect condition, some other need some repair (and of course inactive), but I´m currently shooting some film with all those.
So, I´m a photographer who collects some specific cameras, because wants to shoot with them.
I´m actually restoring a Voigtländer Virtus and a Zeiss Ikon Bob 510-8, that´s because I want to make a try on medium format.

And I feel like G´man... I do not want to see great cameras forgotten... and also love dogs.

Ernesto
 
I voted on collect cameras because they improve the croft of photography, I intented to do that, but...

But I do enjoy owning the gear! Is it an ego thing?
 
hms624 said:
Just out of curiosity, if you all were to define yourselves, how many take pictures for the excuse to collect cameras, and how many collect cameras because of a love of taking pictures? Be honest.

Craft versus collection ?
Is THAT what you understand as the two alternative ways of a photogs life or what ?
Sounds more like trying to provoke a controversial X vs Y discussion about alternatives who do not exist at all ? Don't invent military fronts here because differentiated considerations are too difficult for you.

The two choices you offer don't relate correctly to the question too so what is that strange poll good for ? Does not look well thought, to say the least.

B.
 
I love taking pictures and I love looking at them. I guess I've accumulated a small collection of gear over the years but don't really consider myself a collector.

I've got a 35mm Agfa Silette (sp?) that my dad bought in Germany when he was stationed there in the mid 50's. I also have many of the black and white prints that he took with that camera. It's neat to look at those pics from 50 years ago and be able to hold the camera that he used to take them.

The camera still works by the way...
 
I love making photographs and don't want to carry a lot of equipment. I've been buying and trying different camera's trying to find the ONE. The One that felt right, did what I wanted it to do and allowed me to make photos without thinking if a different camera might be better for the situation, the one I would always want with me. A few weeks ago a buddy let me use his Hexar AF and I knew I had acheived my photographic nirvana... Now I must find the funds to buy one of these beauties, then my gas will at long last be satisfied. (Or will it?)
 
My name is Bob and I am a collector...... there I said it and now I can go for the cure. For me collecting cameras that turn my crank and taking photos are not mutually exculsive. It has answered one question that I suspected I knew the answer to from my days in firearms collecting/shooting. That is you can't buy a better score/photo. This question, collector vs photographer, is about as devisive as asking/stating what is the best anything. I will try not to loose sleep over it. Thanks Wierdcollector for speaking up.

Bob
 
My dear friend Bertram, I do not understand why you can not comprehend what I am asking. I also do not understand why you insist on claiming that I am trying to start a fight. This is getting ridiculous. Beyond ridiculous. I refuse to allow everyone to keep misunderstanding me. It is tiresome. What I am actually saying, is that there seem to be two camps. Those who prefer collecting for its own sake, and those that prefer photography for its own sake. Being in either group, does not preclude the other. Furthermore, simply having a lot of gear does not mean that one is not a photographer.

This issue was discussed in great detail on a thread that Frank started, called Photography vs. gearhead. He has not been continually lambasted and personally attacked. I mean, come on, please grow up. I would greatly prefer if we focused on the discussion instead of repeatedly accusing me of being a rabble-rouser.

I still do not understand the shame that pervades collecting. Collectors are not inferior, nor are they eunuchs. If you really want to talk about disrespect and shallow-mindedness, I refer you to your own posts the other day when you claimed that collectors who do not photograph are somehow, and I quote, "men who have had their testes cut off." For one who preaches such tolerance, you seem to be awfully opinionated when it comes to this subject.

The other thread was locked the other day. I believe it had to do with it being "too lively" for people's tastes. Someone also mentioned something about whipping a dead horse. Regardless, here is the link to the other thread, so you can read the posts and understand the argument in a deeper way than you currently seem to. ( http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13310&page=6&pp=20 ) In fact, I am surprised that you do not understand what was being said already, as you were a quite active poster in that thread. For even further convenience, I am posting what I was initially saying here. Please try to read it this time, and not just get angry and accuse me of being shallow.


As I seem to have instigated this "navel watching" or whatnot, I feel that I should clarify what I was originally saying.

First, there seems to be a stigma against collecting for the sake of collecting. COLLECTING IS NOT A BAD THING. It is ok to admit that you collect cameras because it is an interesting hobby. Which it is. The craftmanship of classic mechanical gear is superb. As I said initially, one does not need to justify a large mechanical watch collection by checking the time constantly.

Of course, like any fine watch that needs to be wound to stay in good shape, cameras benefit from frequent exercise. Therefore, I believe that there is a subset of the RFF population which collects cameras and uses them in order to gain the full experience of collecting. Furthermore, collecting classic cameras would not be as enriching if one did not know how to use these cameras. This entails knowing enough photographic principles to competently operate a classic camera. This can, of course, be construed as photography, but it is often not what most people have in mind when discussing the subject.

What I do not understand is people who feel the need to justify this hobby of collection by claiming that they are interested in photography and the gear is secondary. This is not true. Why people are attempting to justify their interests is a source of confusion for me.

Second, photography and collecting are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of photgraphers--professional or otherwise--who have two sets of gear: the equipment they use for photography, and the equipment they collect. This can be for purposes of nostalgia, appreciation of gear, academic enrichment, etcetera. There is however--as most would admit--a clear distinction between the equipment that an individual uses on a daily basis, the equipment used for serious photography, and the equipment that is simply for the purposes of collecting.

Third, within the category of photgraphers, there are two main subgroups: those that attempt to streamline their workflow with their ideal camera, and those that attempt to gain as much knowledge and equipment as possible. As I said earlier, Henri Cartier-Bresson belonged to the former group, while Ansel Adams belonged to the latter.

Mr. Cartier-Bresson had his one Leica M3 and Elmarit lens. He hired a printer to produce photographs from his negatives. This was enough, and suited him well. Conversely, Mr. Adams had a vast assortment of gear and knowledge about gear. Although he favored view cameras, it is clear from his written work that he was quite competent in almost every aspect of photography. This worked well for both of these stalwarts of photography.

I am an eighteen year old college student. I am interested in simplicity. I do copious amounts of research before making any purchases, as I wish to have one iteration of the best possible demonstration of a piece of equipment. I started in photography using old APS point-and-shoots when I was much younger. Recently, for serious photography, I cut my teeth on my parent's dSLR. I then decided that digital photography was not only boring, but prevented me from learning the basics. I was taking pretentious, pretty pictures on automatic of things that had no significance or meaning. I then discovered Mr. Cartier-Bresson's work, and fell in love with humanist photography. I then decided that I would delve into this craft.

I did research, and sites such as this helped me learn a tremendous amount. In fact, as I am entirely self-taught, all I know comes from these types of sites, photoblogs such as http://www.chromogenic.net and http://dgoutnik.net/ , as well as various library books on photography. I taught myself how to develop my own pictures through various web-tutorials. Thus, I am not criticizing these sites, as I fully appreciate their value.

With this information, I decided to ask my parents for a Leica M7 and 50mm Summicron. As my eighteenth birthday fell on the same day as my high school graduation, my parents and grandparents decided that as a combined present for both of these occasions, and from all of them, they would buy me these two items. I spent much of the summer with them, and with the money I saved from various academic competitions and working full-time as a counselor at a summer camp, I bought a 35mm Summicron.

This is the extent of my equipment. It will not grow. I still read photo websites in order to teach myself more about the craft. The reason for my initial post, was that it seemed that people have began to focus fairly intensely upon equipment over craft. Which is fine. I am just trying to gauge people's opinions to the change that I perceive.

Thank you for your time,
Harrison

Thanks a million,
Harrison
 
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