Leica LTM Creepy Old Cameras

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
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Pastor Chris

Pastor Chris

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I'm not sure where to put this, and I AM NOT INTERESTED IN STARTING A MORAL DEBATE. I am interested in hearing what others have gone through. So here is the story: About a year ago I bought a IIIC from a fellow whose grandfather had brought it back from the war. I knew that it was a wartime camera from the bump under the rewind lever and it had red curtains. Something was engraved on the back of the top plate but later obliterated mechanically. The shutter didn't work because of the rubber sticking on/in the curtains. I bought it for a good price, I think $300, very happy for the camera with the lens. Came in a cardboard box with yet another ever-ready case. I later noticed that the case was gray and thought that was unusual. I looked close and then noticed the embossing on the top of the case, "Luftwaffe Eigentum". I looked closer at the obliterated engraving on the camera and, knowing what I was trying to read, it read the same thing. After e few emails with the serial number, it was confirmed as authentic.

Here is my pondering for all of you: I am not a collector of such things. I also realise that it is just a camera (Don't blame Ahab because his parents gave him an evil name. . . ) It apparently had a life after the war as evidenced by the servicing stickers on the inside of the bottom plate. A collector told me that to fixe the shutter and make it operable would reduce the collector value because I would have to replace the red curtains. Again, I am not a collector and only want cameras I can use.

But the underlying issue that I could not shake was that this was a Nazi military camera, and that just creeped me out.

I ended up trading it for some other gear and that made me very happy, end of story on that camera, for me anyway.

This was all sparked as I was looking through the Gallery here at RFF and someone had posted many shots of his Luftwaffe IIIc.

Anyone have similar thoughts about such things?
 
No. There are items that I might find creepy - those expressly designed for torture and mutilation, for example - but a camera, even a Nazi-issue camera, is just a camera.

Did Herbie creep you out too? ;)
 
It may help to know that the Ernst Leitz firm behaved very well during WW2. They sent scores of Jewish "employees", and of course their families to the US (and Canada I think) to Leitz subsidiaries to get them out of Germany and keep them safe. I read about this effort years ago and don't remember all the details but is was a quite a story.
 
zuiko85 said:
It may help to know that the Ernst Leitz firm behaved very well during WW2. They sent scores of Jewish "employees", and of course their families to the US (and Canada I think) to Leitz subsidiaries to get them out of Germany and keep them safe. I read about this effort years ago and don't remember all the details but is was a quite a story.
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I did find out about this, and found that Leitz's heorism toward the Jewish people during the was was only revealed lately. It seems as though he could be called the Oskar Schindler of the camera world.
 
Swords, bayonets and military rifles are made for killing people. That's a lot nastier/creepier than a camera.

Then there are statistics. Very roughly, Hitler killed 16,000,000 people. How do you feel about Stalin (32,000.000)? Mao (64,000,000)? And yet, Mao's heirs are still in power...

Cheers,

R.
 
I`d have to say no too.
Roger has a point, Stalin was a killer and yet people still collect Feds and Zorki cameras.
There just cameras.
 
I do sort of get you Roger, and I agree that weapons of war are nastier than a camera, but maybe not creepier. I wondered at what photos were taken with the camera and for what purposes. I think that most of our minds are burned with propaganda images used during the rise of the Third Reich.

I suppose it is also a good guys/bad guys thing. I would love to have an allied military camera in my collection, as long as it worked.

Let's keep this going.
 
Feds, and Zorkis, yes, but I am talking about cameras with a specific military provenance. Also, I do not have anything against collectors of German military cameras. I am simply wondering if any others share the same resistance to them or if they have gone through a similar thought process.
 
Pastor Chris said:
I'm not sure where to put this, and I AM NOT INTERESTED IN STARTING A MORAL DEBATE. I am interested in hearing what others have gone through. So here is the story: About a year ago I bought a IIIC from a fellow whose grandfather had brought it back from the war.
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The fellow's grandfather might have traded it against food. Or it might have been a gift when parting from his German girlfriend.

I don't think it's creepy at all. If anything, it's a symbol of the Allies winning the war.

Cheers,

Roland.
 
I actually traded it for gear worth much more than I paid and have really enjoyed it. I ended up with another wartime IIIc just a few weeks ago and it is an excellent shooter.
 
I don't find it creepy, it's history, and owning or not owning a camera does change that, or imply any sort of condoning of it. Most major powers at some point have committed terrible crimes against humanity, the U.S.A., British Empire, Soviet Union, China, Japan. Some get more press than others though.

I think it's OK to find history interesting, and collect antiques, and still find what happened repellent.
 
Pastor Chris said:
Feds, and Zorkis, yes, but I am talking about cameras with a specific military provenance. Also, I do not have anything against collectors of German military cameras. I am simply wondering if any others share the same resistance to them or if they have gone through a similar thought process.
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I feel I wouldn't touch NKVD camera. Well, I could pick it, explore and such, but I wouldn't like to keep or use it. I'm not too sensitive about auras and such but sure I wouldn't want to connect myself with killer squad even by camera. Western people often feel romantic about USSR (cliches - cold vodka, hot girls, FEDs and AK-47's), we near Russia have too much memories from the past...
 
Elektrojänis said:
Or then you might stop wondering about the evil history of the camera and try to find out how much good you can do with it.
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I have no doubt about the good that has been done with the camera since it's liberation, but the point is wondering what others may have gone through in similar situations.
 
It is interesting to me that for this particular camera, you can re-trace at least part of it's past. I often wonder where or for what purpose my used equipment has been used for in the past - but often there is no real way of knowing. Who knows where most of the 1930's/early 1940's equipment was during the war - or what it was used to photograph? Interesting, if not scary, to think about.
 
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