Leica LTM Creepy Old Cameras

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses
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It's a historical relic, regardless of affiliation. It should have gone to a museum, in my opinion. A lot of them would have paid you a fair value for it as well.
 
I can understand your feelings, but...

It's not the camera's fault that it was used by some idiots, non-thinking people or people that were too afraid of stand up for the right thing.

I do have a 1935 Leica as well and I am amazed by the fact that it still works well, much more than thinking about the people who might have use it first.
 
thegman said:
Hmm, if it's been obliterated, fine, I would not have it restored or anything like that, but I can't go along with destroying historical artefacts because they represent something terrible. I'd hate to think that if an old slave ship was discovered, that it would immediately be scuttled simply because it's purpose was barbaric.

I get the sentiment, but history is history, and generally I think we should strive to preserve it, and not just the pleasant stuff.
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I agree, and I also agree with the several responder that say, "restore it and shoot it." Almost a redemption, if that is even necessary. I was torn between the two, not wanting to keep it simply as a non-working piece of history, that is fine for someone else, and reducing it's historical value for the sake of using it. I ended up with a nice CLAd wartime IIIc, but not one so marked.
 
Bear in mind that all German military were not nazi's (i.e. SS).

Most were just regular army and no different than US military regular army.

nazi's were something else

If the camera had SS initials engraved or a swastika. That is something different

Luftwaffe is just a generic German word for airforce

DON
 
Bill Clark said:
. . . More want to live here but I hear of very few who permanently leave.. . .
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One in three of all immigrants, over the last 150 years (US immigration statistics, which I learned to my surprise on Ellis Island). If you lived outside the USA, you might hear of many more who have left, including many born in the USA. Married to an American expatriate (which is NOT the same as an ex-patriot), I probably tend to meet/notice more than most people. In our small village in France (maybe 1000 people) I know two US-born emigrées (NY State and Texas) and two who immigrated and left (France and the UK).

The USA is a good country, much like other good countries. But it's not uniquely perfect. It's better in some ways, and worse in others. Addendum: both my grandfathers were killed in WW2.

Cheers,

R.
 
My answer is "yes" and I still haven't figured out what I'll do with it though these cameras deserve to be preserved as artifacts of history.
 
Michael Markey said:
I`d have to say no too.
Roger has a point, Stalin was a killer and yet people still collect Feds and Zorki cameras.
There just cameras.
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Agreed. And yes, but Fed and Zorki bashing is not stylish. Well, actually...no, nevermind.


I think the point is that creepiness is very subjective. One man's bacon cheeseburger is another one's double-whammy abomination.

It all depends on one's moral values and/or complete ignorance of historical meaning. For example, some people are genuinely creeped out by the thought of buying an iPhone (not because of the price to them, but of the deferred gains made off of virtual slave labor), or getting a pepperoni pizza out of genuine horror (not because pizza by itself is often a culinary travesty, but because of the ingredients and the industries behind it using more-than-questionable raising and financial means).

Context.

One also must not belittle another's jitters simply because you don't share their feelings (and to clarify, because I know on the intertoobes people either don't read or power-read or simply misread, I'm not addressing anybody in particular by the use of "you"...it's a general "one" of "you").

I would be just as creeped out by having a "Nazi era" camera in my possession just as I would be of having anything owned by or pertaining to Nixon, Mao, Stalin, LBJ etc. etc.

I once (a long long time ago) was almost given a watch that was supposedly once owned by Victoriano Huerta (Google the name; I won't get into it here). I've, since then, never again spoken to the [guy] who treasured it.

One's emotions are personal and (obviously) nobody else's. If you have something in your possession which doesn't make you feel good under your skin, get rid of it. That simple. And logically, reasonably, honorable.
 
Hi Roger!

Nice to hear from you!

You probably wouldn't want to live in Minnesota in January! But it's a wee bit warmer of late---global warming?

Yes, you are correct, there are many fine countries on earth to reside. Sound like you live in a beautiful place! How about having a few of us photographer aficionados "invade" your city and saunter around making photographs sometime?

Have a wonderful week!
 
Bill Clark said:
Hi Roger!

Nice to hear from you!

You probably wouldn't want to live in Minnesota in January! But it's a wee bit warmer of late---global warming?

Yes, you are correct, there are many fine countries on earth to reside. Sound like you live in a beautiful place! How about having a few of us photographer aficionados "invade" your city and saunter around making photographs sometime?

Have a wonderful week!
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Dear Bill,

We have a spare room... but only one! Alternatively, there's an hotel and an English-speaking B&B.

For pics of the village, and nearby Noizé (going there tomorrow, maybe 5 miles away) see http://www.rogerandfrances.com/sgallery/g france new.html

Cheers,

R.
 
hunghang said:
Creepiness is a state of mind, not a property of an innate object.
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Yep. Gotta go along with this. If a camera of the same sort as the OP comes out of my mailbox, it will be kept, fixed, used and enjoyed, enjoyed, enjoyed. :D

I have two 1930's Leicas, one purchased from Russia, one from Ukraine. Where have they been? Who owned them? What have they been used for? (And baby, they've been used a lot!) I'd love to know, but regardless, they're mine now and used for ..... fun.
 
sleepyhead said:
As a Jew, and someone with a personal connection to some awfull events that occurred in the period of time in question, I would probably keep such a camera and use it.

This is partly because I love cameras and I do not blame an inanimate instrument for how it might have been/was used, and partly because I would likely get a private kick occasionally thinking that my people and religion and ideas live on, whilst the regime that tried to destroy it is gone.
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Well said.
 
hunghang said:
Creepiness is a state of mind, not a property of an innate object.
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I think you are right as well. For example, I think that clowns are creepy but others just love them, like John Wayne Gasey. Certainly it is not the object itself, but it's story or connotation. As one earlier poster mentioned, I did not find it creepy until I fully knew what it was. So. Not inherently creepy unto itself, but creepy because of its known history, relative to my own perceptions and context.

But this is irrelevant to the original question, "Have you ever encountered a creepy old camera ( a camera that you found creepy), what was it, and what did you do about it?"

I'm not asking if you think my camera was creepy, but have you ever been in a similar situation?

Perhaps another, related question, given that one person's creepy camera is another's highly desired collectible, what is the attraction?

Certainly another can of worms, but I think relevant.
 
I don't think Pastor Chris is averse to owning a Leica on account of it being made in Germany. I believe he finds it creepy to own one that was purchased by the German military during the time of the holocaust, and during the time when Germany was an enemy of the USA and the allied forces. After all, he did later acquire a IIIc with no German military markings, and feels OK about it.

I feel the same way. I am fond of the IIIc, and own three of them, including one that is a "stepper" (i.e. has the "bump" Chris mentioned). But I would not care to own one that was purchased by the German Military during those years. I wouldn't even want one in my house. I have no negative feelings about the Leitz company, for reasons mentioned above: they were obviously not anti-semitic, and were also not nazi sympathizers. They were simply forced to consign some of the camera production to the government.
 
Rob-F said:
I don't think Pastor Chris is averse to owning a Leica on account of it being made in Germany. I believe he finds it creepy to own one that was purchased by the German military during the time of the holocaust, and during the time when Germany was an enemy of the USA and the allied forces. After all, he did later acquire a IIIc with no German military markings, and feels OK about it.

I feel the same way. I am fond of the IIIc, and own three of them, including one that is a "stepper" (i.e. has the "bump" Chris mentioned). But I would not care to own one that was purchased by the German Military during those years. I wouldn't even want one in my house. I have no negative feelings about the Leitz company, for reasons mentioned above: they were obviously not anti-semitic, and were also not nazi sympathizers. They were simply forced to consign some of the camera production to the government.
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Word.

So, anybody ever have a creepy camera?:p
 
Fascinating discussion! Wow I didn't know Leitz is up there with Wallenberg and Shindler in terms of using their situation to save lives. I certainly can understand why one wouldn't feel right using a camera with such a history but I also like the concept of taking something that was used for evil and using it for good. After all a camera has no good or bad on it's own.
 
cepwin said:
Fascinating discussion! Wow I didn't know Leitz is up there with Wallenberg and Shindler in terms of using their situation to save lives. I certainly can understand why one wouldn't feel right using a camera with such a history but I also like the concept of taking something that was used for evil and using it for good. After all a camera has no good or bad on it's own.
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It is fascinating! I am learning a lot myself. After all, isn't that what we are to be about here? Not being right about things necessarily, but learning how to be more right and even where we are wrong.

Much thanks to all who are participating.
 
My grandfather and his brother were drafted to Soviet army around 1943, my great uncle was killed and my grangfather was wounded in Berlin. His two brothers were members of Ukrainian Rebel Army and were executed by NKVD, Their bodies were left on the road in the middle of the village, where their family lived, for three days. His fifth brother was sentenced to 25 years of Gulag, and then 15 years of 20 mile radius settlement form his place of imprisonment. he returned to Ukraine in 1986, and died in 1991. What should bother me? I don't let anything do it. Cameras are not guns. they don't kill people, they are used for taking images, they don't remember. Keep it, use it, and tell the story it might have had.
Sam.
 
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