Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
MichaelB said:
The elements are all "well" placed in the frame; the on-lookers (with the exception of the --half-- guy on the left edge of the frame) are centered around the smoker and the guitar-player.
It makes you wonder whether these people know each other or are just interacting anonymously; it's a snapshot in a small wrinkle of evening time which raises many questions. So it engages the viewer...but so few questions are answered.
The blur just adds to the uncertain nature of the event.
I'm sure that zooming in and zooming out would give very different perspectives with very different interpretations. So we're not too detached, but not too involved.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Do we need to hear from anyone else before we make further comments?
Sorry for asking all the questions, as this is my first online critique!
Sorry for asking all the questions, as this is my first online critique!
infrequent
Well-known
Yes, further comments can be made now. Vince, you wanna start first?
raid
Dad Photographer
How about waiting for Roland to comment as a guest?
infrequent
Well-known
I think Roland can weigh in anytime he chooses to as he is a guest...but as participants you guys should continue the critique. I think that will keep the spirit of this critique intact.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
I guess I'll give it a whirl here...
I really appreciate the comments, both for my photo as well as for the others. i'll have to try Lawrence's suggestion about the grey scaling -- I guess I'm a product of the selenium toning days, and I've always gone for that slightly purplish cast...Maybe I'll repost it as a grey scale to see how it compares. Not sure about that modified cropping, though I can understand Gabriel's point of view.
The shot is part of a larger project that I did down in northeast Florida (east of Jacksonville along the St. John's River) in what used to be a 'fish camp', and has basically evolved (devolved?) into just a plain ol' bar. There are actually people living behind this bar in trailers, an old school bus -- gives full meaning to the phrase "wasting away in Margaritaville". It was a two month project, and I built the trust of the folks there to the point where they didn't even pay attention to me taking pictures after a while. I used a Leica M2 with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses (though mainly the 50 Summicron), as well as a Vivitar 285 flash on a remote light stand which was bounced off the ceiling. I shot Tri-X film and purposely under exposed it by 1 stop to bury my shadows, thereby giving the look of 'available light'. The project ended when this very large drunk guy threatened to put my camera in a place that I didn't think was physically possible, and I determined that I didn't need to go back there any more (this was after 8 weeks of shooting, mind you), and the project was complete.
I suppose it's difficult to see a photo when it's not supported by other photos in a complete project, and this may apply to the other photos in this critique as well. I guess we're all expecting a photo to stand on its own, but sometimes you need those supporting photos to help tell the broader story. Are any of the other photos part of larger projects? Perhaps that's why I was particularly drawn to Lawrence's shot, because it reminded me of this place in Florida and I could identify with this one.
And BTW, Michael, purchasing a photo is indeed possible...they are all on fibre based paper (yes, a REAL print!). PM me if you're really interested....thanks!
I'll shut up for now and let someone else have a go....
I really appreciate the comments, both for my photo as well as for the others. i'll have to try Lawrence's suggestion about the grey scaling -- I guess I'm a product of the selenium toning days, and I've always gone for that slightly purplish cast...Maybe I'll repost it as a grey scale to see how it compares. Not sure about that modified cropping, though I can understand Gabriel's point of view.
The shot is part of a larger project that I did down in northeast Florida (east of Jacksonville along the St. John's River) in what used to be a 'fish camp', and has basically evolved (devolved?) into just a plain ol' bar. There are actually people living behind this bar in trailers, an old school bus -- gives full meaning to the phrase "wasting away in Margaritaville". It was a two month project, and I built the trust of the folks there to the point where they didn't even pay attention to me taking pictures after a while. I used a Leica M2 with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses (though mainly the 50 Summicron), as well as a Vivitar 285 flash on a remote light stand which was bounced off the ceiling. I shot Tri-X film and purposely under exposed it by 1 stop to bury my shadows, thereby giving the look of 'available light'. The project ended when this very large drunk guy threatened to put my camera in a place that I didn't think was physically possible, and I determined that I didn't need to go back there any more (this was after 8 weeks of shooting, mind you), and the project was complete.
I suppose it's difficult to see a photo when it's not supported by other photos in a complete project, and this may apply to the other photos in this critique as well. I guess we're all expecting a photo to stand on its own, but sometimes you need those supporting photos to help tell the broader story. Are any of the other photos part of larger projects? Perhaps that's why I was particularly drawn to Lawrence's shot, because it reminded me of this place in Florida and I could identify with this one.
And BTW, Michael, purchasing a photo is indeed possible...they are all on fibre based paper (yes, a REAL print!). PM me if you're really interested....thanks!
I'll shut up for now and let someone else have a go....
Last edited:
raid
Dad Photographer
I was walking late at night with a friend in the old parts of Lisbon (Portugal) where music is played and many people walk around the narrow lanes. I saw from the lane this bar which had the colorful light in the window, with the bottles close by. I shot through the dirty window, and with dim light, I could barely make out a good focus point with my Bessa T and Canon 35mm/1.8 wide open. I saw some figures in the background, and I managed to include them as fuzzy subjects in the image. Everything was "fuzzy" anyways at that time, so sharpness was definitely out.
Thanks a lot for a very interesting and enjoyful round of comments, critiques, and photo sharing.
Thanks a lot for a very interesting and enjoyful round of comments, critiques, and photo sharing.
Last edited:
lawrence
Veteran
MY PHOTO
Many thanks for all the comments, which have been most interesting.
How the photo came about is that I used to go out with a girl from North Carolina, who could pursue most of her hobbies in bars like this one! I've long been an admirer of Robert Frank and love, among many others, the picture of a young man in a bar in Las Vegas standing in front of a jukebox. You can see that it's daytime by the light streaming in through the windows. There's something wonderfully seedy about American bars in daytime and, sitting on my bar stool in the Watering Hole NC, I took a photograph that I hope captures something of that feeling. I used a Canon L1 with 28mm Color Skopar and the light was measured with a Digiflash. Film was TMY developed in FX39. Not sure if I'd use this combo again but it does give a sharp, gritty feel.
Vince: Yup, Freebird and Simple Man were rarely off the jukebox! The lack of a face doesn't worry me at all -- I like their anonymity as well as her posterior.
Michael: "the light in this picture is not what I am used to in a room with pool table". You are obviously out earning a crust when you should be!
Raid: "The dirt spots in the middle of the page [on the floor] appear to my eyes like a "path", drawing them to the tight pair of pants. Was this done deliberately?" I didn't really notice them before but now you mention it I agree that the dirt spots are indeed strategically placed.
Gabriel: I agree that your crop improves the composition but personally I like the extra bit of pool table on the right hand side as I think the space helps with the feeling of emptiness. The slightly 'wrong' framing makes it more Winogrand than HC-B but I like that. Your comment about the lens is interesting, perhaps I'd have been better off with a Canon 28mm instead of the Color Skopar, although I like that lens because you can use it wide open -- as here -- and still get excellent sharpness.
YOUR PHOTOS
Vince: Hope you don't mind but I've attached a grayscaled version of your shot. I prefer it though I guess from your comment you may not.
Michael: Again, I hope you don't mind but I've adjusted your shot in the way I previously suggested.
Raid: Gabriel has pretty much done what I suggested. That's interesting about the lens -- I have one of those and wide open pictures almost fall to pieces in a rather attractive way.
Many thanks for all the comments, which have been most interesting.
How the photo came about is that I used to go out with a girl from North Carolina, who could pursue most of her hobbies in bars like this one! I've long been an admirer of Robert Frank and love, among many others, the picture of a young man in a bar in Las Vegas standing in front of a jukebox. You can see that it's daytime by the light streaming in through the windows. There's something wonderfully seedy about American bars in daytime and, sitting on my bar stool in the Watering Hole NC, I took a photograph that I hope captures something of that feeling. I used a Canon L1 with 28mm Color Skopar and the light was measured with a Digiflash. Film was TMY developed in FX39. Not sure if I'd use this combo again but it does give a sharp, gritty feel.
Vince: Yup, Freebird and Simple Man were rarely off the jukebox! The lack of a face doesn't worry me at all -- I like their anonymity as well as her posterior.
Michael: "the light in this picture is not what I am used to in a room with pool table". You are obviously out earning a crust when you should be!
Raid: "The dirt spots in the middle of the page [on the floor] appear to my eyes like a "path", drawing them to the tight pair of pants. Was this done deliberately?" I didn't really notice them before but now you mention it I agree that the dirt spots are indeed strategically placed.
Gabriel: I agree that your crop improves the composition but personally I like the extra bit of pool table on the right hand side as I think the space helps with the feeling of emptiness. The slightly 'wrong' framing makes it more Winogrand than HC-B but I like that. Your comment about the lens is interesting, perhaps I'd have been better off with a Canon 28mm instead of the Color Skopar, although I like that lens because you can use it wide open -- as here -- and still get excellent sharpness.
YOUR PHOTOS
Vince: Hope you don't mind but I've attached a grayscaled version of your shot. I prefer it though I guess from your comment you may not.
Michael: Again, I hope you don't mind but I've adjusted your shot in the way I previously suggested.
Raid: Gabriel has pretty much done what I suggested. That's interesting about the lens -- I have one of those and wide open pictures almost fall to pieces in a rather attractive way.
Attachments
Vince Lupo
Whatever
How does this one look? This is a bit of a compromise, and yeah, maybe the other one is a bit too purple. I tried to get more of that delicious looking tartar sauce in the lilttle cups to come up more, but couldn't do it (it shows more in the print). I like what you did to Michael's shot...really opens it up!
Attachments
Last edited:
lawrence
Veteran
Yes, that looks almost more neutral than the one I did. You may have noticed that I also darkened the highlights, which does give a bit more detail. I use PSE because I find it so easy and quick -- I mean a fader called "Darken Highlights" even I can understandVince Lupo said:
lawrence
Veteran
Yes, that looks almost more neutral than the one I did -- did you like Brovira? You may have noticed that I also darkened the highlights, which does give a bit more detail. I use PSE because I find it so easy and quick -- I mean a fader called "Darken Highlights" even I can understandVince Lupo said:
Vince Lupo
Whatever
I used to be a big Portriga fan before it was discontinued. Now I'm just a regular Ilford Multigrade FB guy, selenium tone 1:40...
BTW, do you have any other shots of your bar?
BTW, do you have any other shots of your bar?
Last edited:
lawrence
Veteran
Yes, of course, Portriga took toning well but Brovira didn't.
MichaelB
Established
Here is my background story for the picture provided.
I made this one during a concert in one of the local watering holes. A friend asked me some time ago if I would like to take some pictures of them during their next concert. I did and they liked the results. So this time I was the official fotoguy for them. No money involved. I do not have to pay for the night at the pub. Everything is covered by them. They don't pay for the film and chemicals used. A fair deal as far as I am concerned.
During the concert a former member of the band (the woman with the cigarette) came in. It was a surprise as she moved away a while ago. The guy to the right with the glasses is her friend and the reason why she moved. The guy to the left with the cigarette and the tattoo is the shouter of the band. To my surprise (I was trying to get a descent shot of the drummer at that moment with this pos light setup which ruined many shots) Wolfgang, the guy with the guitar, just walked off the stage to meet her and continued to play. It was quiet strange to see the shouter having a beer and cigarette in preparation for his next song (look here for their playlist http://www.juice-coverrock.de/programm.html) the lead guitar and a young couple where the male part was completely ignored with him following every step with a kind of pissed look in his eyes in front of the stage. All this while the concert moved on. They did not stop for a second even though the lead guitar went off stage to invite her to sing with 'em. A nice evening and if you would like to see some more feel free to visit this site (http://home.fotocommunity.de/michaelbratz -> folder Konzerte). So maybe the composition isn't that strange anymore. If you want to know more about this or one of the other pics related feel free to ask.
Have fun and a big thank you to all of you for your input. It is very much appreciated.
PS: PM sent
I made this one during a concert in one of the local watering holes. A friend asked me some time ago if I would like to take some pictures of them during their next concert. I did and they liked the results. So this time I was the official fotoguy for them. No money involved. I do not have to pay for the night at the pub. Everything is covered by them. They don't pay for the film and chemicals used. A fair deal as far as I am concerned.
During the concert a former member of the band (the woman with the cigarette) came in. It was a surprise as she moved away a while ago. The guy to the right with the glasses is her friend and the reason why she moved. The guy to the left with the cigarette and the tattoo is the shouter of the band. To my surprise (I was trying to get a descent shot of the drummer at that moment with this pos light setup which ruined many shots) Wolfgang, the guy with the guitar, just walked off the stage to meet her and continued to play. It was quiet strange to see the shouter having a beer and cigarette in preparation for his next song (look here for their playlist http://www.juice-coverrock.de/programm.html) the lead guitar and a young couple where the male part was completely ignored with him following every step with a kind of pissed look in his eyes in front of the stage. All this while the concert moved on. They did not stop for a second even though the lead guitar went off stage to invite her to sing with 'em. A nice evening and if you would like to see some more feel free to visit this site (http://home.fotocommunity.de/michaelbratz -> folder Konzerte). So maybe the composition isn't that strange anymore. If you want to know more about this or one of the other pics related feel free to ask.
Have fun and a big thank you to all of you for your input. It is very much appreciated.
PS: PM sent
MichaelB
Established
Thank you Lawrence. The picture does look better. I will adjust mine.
ferider
Veteran
Here are my comments. Sorry I’m a little late, I was stranded on the East Coast in the snow, with little access to the internet.
Gabriel:
I often don’t care for portraits taken “from the back” but this one is an exception. Two pretty ladies, enough visible of the face of the left one, and enough blur of the right one to imagine a lifely conversation. The kind of conversation I could watch being alone in a restaurant. Hearing their sound, ignoring what is being said, just watching the two. Nice mood; you hide yourself niceley from the picture – very little influence of the observer on the observed …. Technically tricky, too, with the highlights in the background, and the dark foreground, you managed perfect exposure of the girls faces. The only thing that bothers me is that the right girl reminds me of Michael Jackson
Lawrence:
Typical bar/pool, single scene. What stands out of the picture, in my opinion, is the crisp resolution of the many details in the room: of course I look at the girl first, than the guy – with his pool hat, he seems to be an experienced shooter – or he is just showing off to her. Then I wander around, look at the dirt on the ground, the boxes against the wall, the white board. These details really keep me busy. Very nice.
Michael:
More of a documentary shot of an event. As a photo not as telling as the previous ones – but if you show it to the participants, they will like it, I'm sure. Lots of movement, not sure if the guitar guy is actually singing with the girl or trying to pick her up … It bothers me a bit that the light on his face is blown out – he is, for me, the center of the picture and I’m trying to figure out what he is doing. Could be a problem with the scan – if the negative allows you, I would try to dodge his face a bit.
Raid:
This must be the typical perspective of a cook in a smaller restaurant (or at home) watching on his guests. The focus on the kitchen tools, the blur of the eaters creates a distance between the observer and the dining room(s). The window in between and reflections amplify this. I’ve felt myself like this cooking for guests more than once. I’m busy, and occasionally check that everybody is having a good time, but feel remote from the group. Nice memories …
Vince:
Besides being another interpretation of the theme, this is a truly outstanding photo. I like it very much, one of the best photos I have seen on RFF. An introverted look at oneself at a bar, after a hard day, obviously. Smoke and cheap liquor; alone. I keep coming back to this, for me existentialist portrait.
I really like that the 5 pictures show the thread theme from 5 very different perspectives. Portrait vs. documentation vs. philosphy. Great stuff. Thank you all for participating and letting me play the guest.
Gabriel:
I often don’t care for portraits taken “from the back” but this one is an exception. Two pretty ladies, enough visible of the face of the left one, and enough blur of the right one to imagine a lifely conversation. The kind of conversation I could watch being alone in a restaurant. Hearing their sound, ignoring what is being said, just watching the two. Nice mood; you hide yourself niceley from the picture – very little influence of the observer on the observed …. Technically tricky, too, with the highlights in the background, and the dark foreground, you managed perfect exposure of the girls faces. The only thing that bothers me is that the right girl reminds me of Michael Jackson
Lawrence:
Typical bar/pool, single scene. What stands out of the picture, in my opinion, is the crisp resolution of the many details in the room: of course I look at the girl first, than the guy – with his pool hat, he seems to be an experienced shooter – or he is just showing off to her. Then I wander around, look at the dirt on the ground, the boxes against the wall, the white board. These details really keep me busy. Very nice.
Michael:
More of a documentary shot of an event. As a photo not as telling as the previous ones – but if you show it to the participants, they will like it, I'm sure. Lots of movement, not sure if the guitar guy is actually singing with the girl or trying to pick her up … It bothers me a bit that the light on his face is blown out – he is, for me, the center of the picture and I’m trying to figure out what he is doing. Could be a problem with the scan – if the negative allows you, I would try to dodge his face a bit.
Raid:
This must be the typical perspective of a cook in a smaller restaurant (or at home) watching on his guests. The focus on the kitchen tools, the blur of the eaters creates a distance between the observer and the dining room(s). The window in between and reflections amplify this. I’ve felt myself like this cooking for guests more than once. I’m busy, and occasionally check that everybody is having a good time, but feel remote from the group. Nice memories …
Vince:
Besides being another interpretation of the theme, this is a truly outstanding photo. I like it very much, one of the best photos I have seen on RFF. An introverted look at oneself at a bar, after a hard day, obviously. Smoke and cheap liquor; alone. I keep coming back to this, for me existentialist portrait.
I really like that the 5 pictures show the thread theme from 5 very different perspectives. Portrait vs. documentation vs. philosphy. Great stuff. Thank you all for participating and letting me play the guest.
Last edited:
raid
Dad Photographer
Hello Roland,
Thank you for your insightful comments. I also view this is a successful critique thread from which we can learn and benefit. Thanks to all participants for this enjoyful session!
Thank you for your insightful comments. I also view this is a successful critique thread from which we can learn and benefit. Thanks to all participants for this enjoyful session!
Last edited:
lawrence
Veteran
Thanks for the comments, Roland. I agree with Raid, this has been a successful critique and I think it's partly a result of the rules, which have kept it very well focused. The commentary has been intelligent and constructive and if we lived a bit nearer to each other I'd suggest going out for a drink