Critique Forum? :cofused:

back alley said:
i think this is the fatal flaw as most people don't want to risk it. i'm not trying to be mean or anything, i just think there are too few people that would do the work and take the risk of offending someone.
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We could always try it out, give it six weeks or so, if it becomes a "turd" we can flush it :)

Todd
 
ultimately, we need jorge to set up another section - so far he doesn't trust me with all the keys;) to the kingdom.

i'm up for it, just cautiously optomistic...
 
Yes, lets be optimistic.

I think that if a few lead, others will follow. If it really is only a matter of having a few "sacrificial lambs", then I can offer up a few photos for critique ;).

One other key will be that if people see that people are both giving and receiving criticism, actively trying to make the critique forum a constructive place, then I think their hearts will follow.

Maybe not a panel of critiquers, a potentially sinister proposition as some have said, but at least some key people actively involved in the forum. I think we have few people like that here :D.

Drew
 
I think it is a great idea. I would avoid "rating" the photographs though - just stick to comments and constructive criticism.
 
Dracotype said:
I think that if a few lead, others will follow. If it really is only a matter of having a few "sacrificial lambs", then I can offer up a few photos for critique ;).
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One problem may be that people would be hesitant to post photos for critique, for one reason or another. Many times, it is for fear of appearing presumptuous about ones photography. One way to do this, and I am not sure if others would agree, would be to do something similar to photonet's "elves," and have a panel of members, possibly moderators and people who regularly frequent the gallery, select a photo of the week for the critique forum.
 
ray_g said:
One problem may be that people would be hesitant to post photos for critique, for one reason or another. Many times, it is for fear of appearing presumptuous about ones photography. One way to do this, and I am not sure if others would agree, would be to do something similar to photonet's "elves," and have a panel of members, possibly moderators and people who regularly frequent the gallery, select a photo of the week for the critique forum.
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that's not a bad idea. However, if people don't want their photos critqued, to the point where they don't participate, and someone does it anyway without their consent, they might resent it and never post another image again! :)

I think you've gotta have willing participants. What we'll probably find is a small group participating, initially. Which is fine. We already have that now--those that stated so in this thread. Once some ground rules are in place, that's really enough to start.
 
So do we make an attempt at this and how do we go about it? Do we contact Jorge, what are the proper channels? Sorry...just excited :)

Todd
 
i would brainstorm some guidelines and then p.m. jorge with the request.

i would start simple and evolve as people become more comfortable.
jmho

joe
 
back alley said:
i would brainstorm some guidelines and then p.m. jorge with the request.

i would start simple and evolve as people become more comfortable.
jmho

joe
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Great! I can hardly wait. I hope we can make this a great thing.

Drew
 
I think that a critique forum is a great idea. Receiving critiques is a great way to improve your photography, but giving them is also helpful in that it forces you to think critically and articulate what you like in a photo. At least that's been my experience.

Count me in.
 
Todd.Hanz said:
We could always try it out, give it six weeks or so, if it becomes a "turd" we can flush it :)

Todd
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Logistically speaking, we can initially make it part of the W/NW Forum, as a trial. That way, if it does not take off, Jorge would not have wasted any time and effort in creating a new forum. Instead of "W/WN: Example" you could just title the new thread "Crit: Example."

Easy enough to move the old threads should a new forum be created.

I think the only major thing left to sort out is how to select photos to critique, vs voluntarily starting a thread with your photo. There should also be a limit, like one or two a week to start, so that each photo gets enough attention.
 
RayPA said:
that's not a bad idea. However, if people don't want their photos critqued, to the point where they don't participate, and someone does it anyway without their consent, they might resent it and never post another image again! :)
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That is true, Ray. However, the gallery is just that, a gallery, where you hang something on the wall and people can look at it and comment, for good or bad. We are just highlighting a particular photo in the gallery. He can correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is how Jorge envisioned it too, the way the gallery is set up with comments enabled. We have just been "demure" in our comments there. ;)

Otherwise, it just becomes a free online photo storage service. Of course, that's just my 2c.
 
A limit of 1 or 2 images a week is a good idea, maybe 3.

I like the idea of the poster not just posting an image and asking for a critique but also lending an explanation as to what they like about the image themselves or what they were trying to acheive.

A set of guidelines or rules should be established, I would hate for this to become something similar to the "Street and Documentary" forum over at Pnet where a few people can ruin the show.

Todd
 
I would hate for this to become something similar to the "Street and Documentary" forum over at Pnet where a few people can ruin the show.


how so todd?
 
Todd.Hanz said:
I like the idea of the poster not just posting an image and asking for a critique but also lending an explanation as to what they like about the image themselves or what they were trying to acheive.
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Good idea Todd.

To modify my suggestion, perhaps the people that select the photo can PM or email the owner, ask if ok for critique, and ask him/her to do what todd said?
 
ray_g said:
Logistically speaking, we can initially make it part of the W/NW Forum, as a trial. That way, if it does not take off, Jorge would not have wasted any time and effort in creating a new forum. Instead of "W/WN: Example" you could just title the new thread "Crit: Example."

Easy enough to move the old threads should a new forum be created.

I think the only major thing left to sort out is how to select photos to critique, vs voluntarily starting a thread with your photo. There should also be a limit, like one or two a week to start, so that each photo gets enough attention.
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Sorry Ray THIS is the wrong approach. There shouldn't be any "selecting" of photos. The point of a critique is to improve your photography, to improve your analysis and reading of a photograph, and to learn how to critique a photograph. The only people who should be receiving a critique are those that buy-in to (willingly) the process—those that want a critique.

The process here should be:

1. a group discusses and sets the ground rules for all critique threads
2. open a couple of threads—limiting the number of participants/thread (stated in the ground rules)
3. post the rules in the thread
4. photographers join the thread up to the limit
5. the group posts photos and critiques each other's work

There could be several "critique threads" open and waiting for participants to join.
 
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I like the discussion that's been going on about this. And have a couple of thoughts(hopefully helpful).
This interests me primarily because I know my photography can use some critique and there is no one local who can or will critique my work. I don't have the face to face option.
As for who and how this might happen here, one basic rule might be that you(or I) can't critique a photo unless we also submit a photo to be critiqued. I am happy to read critical comments on my gallery photos--in fact, I changed how I cropped one shot because of an insightful comment--but I think that to just pick a photo from some one's gallery and put it in a thread un-asked is a bit presumptuous.
These kind of discussions are likely to become heated at times but I think the folks around here are capeable of expressing strong opinions about the work while not expressing strong opinions about the photographer.
And, brothers and sisters, I have several photos that I would be happy to start us off with...
Rob
 
RayPA said:
The process here should be:

1. a group discusses and sets the ground rules for all critique threads
2. open a couple of threads—limiting the number of participants/thread (stated in the ground rules)
3. post the rules in the thread
4. photographers join the thread up to the limit
5. the group posts photos and critiques each other's work

There could be several "critique threads" open and waiting for participants to join.
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To follow-up, here are some proposed ground rules:

Proposed ground rules
• Participants limited to 5/thread
• Participants join the thread by posting their intention (simply stating something like: I'm joining, I'm in, or just their name)
• Once the thread is full of participants all photographers upload their images
• Photos/participant limited to a maximum of three
• Photographers post their images without any commentary they cannot offer any initial explanation of the image
• Photographers can only comment on their own images when everyone else in the thread has posted their comments
• Every participant must comment on every photo (except their own—initially)
• Every participant must make at least one positive comment, and one constructive criticism (which is actually two positive comments)
• Once every photographer has commented then a free flowing discussion, in which every photographer can comment on their own work, can occur

I think it’s important to limit the number of photographers because these participants will then “own” the critique (they’ll be subscribed to the thread, as well).

Number of participants and photographs can vary, but groups should be smaller rather than larger.

:)
 
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rbiemer said:
I like the discussion that's been going on about this. And have a couple of thoughts(hopefully helpful).
This interests me primarily because I know my photography can use some critique and there is no one local who can or will critique my work. I don't have the face to face option.
As for who and how this might happen here, one basic rule might be that you(or I) can't critique a photo unless we also submit a photo to be critiqued. I am happy to read critical comments on my gallery photos--in fact, I changed how I cropped one shot because of an insightful comment--but I think that to just pick a photo from some one's gallery and put it in a thread un-asked is a bit presumptuous.
These kind of discussions are likely to become heated at times but I think the folks around here are capeable of expressing strong opinions about the work while not expressing strong opinions about the photographer.
And, brothers and sisters, I have several photos that I would be happy to start us off with...
Rob
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Exactly, Rob! Absolutely essential—rule number 1!
 
• Participants limited to 5/thread
• Photos/participant limited to a maximum of three
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Five people and 15 photos sounds like a good number.

• Photographers post their images without any commentary they cannot offer any initial explanation of the image
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I've always thought that if I had to explain what I "meant" by any of my photos, then I didn't accomplish what I intended.

What about some reasonable time limit? In other words, the thread has a self imposed close date? Not quite sure about this but if we all know there is a specific time frame, that may help us(well me, anyway) focus[no pun here-I just can't think of another, better word] on the photos and the community?

I hate to bring it up, but what about specific image sizes?
Rob
 
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