dee
Well-known
I have two lovely Leica II s from 1932/3 ... which I love to use ... but I also love using my Oleged Fed 1g ''Leicas '' coloured black to complement the 30s cameras ...
But why do I also like to take pics with the much less delicate cameras ?
Because I can ? Maybe it's something to do with the Feds being ID compromised - like me , or maybe the Leicas are just a bit too perfect !!! Or maybe they are a bit too precious ... I won't be as bothered if I break a 50s Fed ...
I can understand if an ex-USSR camera offers more than a Leica II or my IIIc / f - like a FED 2 with opening back , or Zorki 4 with all the shutter speeds ...
I love the different finishes offered on pretend Leicas , but that's not about using so much - my sober black Feds are hardy different from the Leicas - from a distance anyway !
Maybe it's sheer masochism , but I suspect it's the deelight of squeezing Leica-like photos from a compromised camera which isn't collectable and has no ''value '' ...or even the USSR mystique ?
OK , I have ASdee , but I am not alone surely ?
dee
But why do I also like to take pics with the much less delicate cameras ?
Because I can ? Maybe it's something to do with the Feds being ID compromised - like me , or maybe the Leicas are just a bit too perfect !!! Or maybe they are a bit too precious ... I won't be as bothered if I break a 50s Fed ...
I can understand if an ex-USSR camera offers more than a Leica II or my IIIc / f - like a FED 2 with opening back , or Zorki 4 with all the shutter speeds ...
I love the different finishes offered on pretend Leicas , but that's not about using so much - my sober black Feds are hardy different from the Leicas - from a distance anyway !
Maybe it's sheer masochism , but I suspect it's the deelight of squeezing Leica-like photos from a compromised camera which isn't collectable and has no ''value '' ...or even the USSR mystique ?
OK , I have ASdee , but I am not alone surely ?
dee
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
Well I have a Leica III (1934 first batch) and a Leica IIIc (1946) - no FED - but I see myself always shooting with the Zorki 1b and 2 (not with the 3, 4 and 4k: I find them just to big) since my Zorki's are more quiet and 'feel' better - its hard to define. But in most cases I use them with my Leitz lenses - from my FSU lenses I only use the Industar 22 - I dislike the others missing clickstops.
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FrankS
Registered User
One of the ways that I could cut down on the number of cameras that I have, is by selling off/giving away my FSU gear, since the Feds have been superceded by a Barnack IIf, and the Kievs have been replaced by Contax. I find/found the non-FSU gear to be more reliable, which is a quality that I find more important than the pleasures dee mentions about using the FSU gear. YMMV
I still have several FSU lenses though.
I still have several FSU lenses though.
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cmedin
Well-known
Frank: if you have any of the early Fed/Zorki cameras that are proper Barnack copies, a friend of mine might be interested. He loves my IIf RD but can't really swing the money for one.
FrankS
Registered User
cmedin said:
Sorry, that FSU stuff (FED 2b's and Kiev 4a's) is already gone.
350D_user
B+W film devotee
Why FED's (or FSU's) when I have a Leica? Easy. They work differently. As I've mentioned before, the Leica I have has no rangefinder, the FED-2, Zorki 4K and Kievs all have a rangefinder. Along with that, I know Russian optics can be very good, and I'd rather use Russian lenses on Russian cameras.
Above all though, I collect cameras, and am tending to concentrate more on FSU's, as opposed to paying vastly overblown prices of Leica equipment. C'mon, if someone 'discovered' those cheap lomo cameras, and "created" a following... as well as multiplying the cost of those things, someone somewhere's going to discover the characteristics of ... say, a Kiev mounted Jupiter-8M, or an Industar-61LD...
It'll happen!
Above all though, I collect cameras, and am tending to concentrate more on FSU's, as opposed to paying vastly overblown prices of Leica equipment. C'mon, if someone 'discovered' those cheap lomo cameras, and "created" a following... as well as multiplying the cost of those things, someone somewhere's going to discover the characteristics of ... say, a Kiev mounted Jupiter-8M, or an Industar-61LD...
It'll happen!
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
In my view the reason to have both FSU Barnacks and LTM Leicas is very simple. It is that whilst both are cosmetically akin they are nonetheless radically dissimilar.
They are products of completely different industrial systems, historical circumstances and ethos. The difference is palpable: partly though the heritage that attaches to each, but also in terms of materials and simple feel. Given that the cameras are working to full potential there is no reason why one should be "better", but the experience is not the same. I think of the Leica having a certain cool precision, the FED 1 having a certain robust warmth - although that is of course entirely subjective.
Cheers, Ian
They are products of completely different industrial systems, historical circumstances and ethos. The difference is palpable: partly though the heritage that attaches to each, but also in terms of materials and simple feel. Given that the cameras are working to full potential there is no reason why one should be "better", but the experience is not the same. I think of the Leica having a certain cool precision, the FED 1 having a certain robust warmth - although that is of course entirely subjective.
Cheers, Ian
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dee
Well-known
Thanks - very interesting - ASD tends to blur rational thought , so i guess I am trying to put '' me '' in some kind of perspective ! For me , Leica-likes are an inexpensive way of extending the Leica style family - and the more familiar toys I have around me , the more settled / grounded '' i '' am , but it's quite true that my Leica give a different experience from the visually similar [ i.e . ''recognised '' Fed pretenders -
It was not so long ago - a year , that any kind of Leica style camera was an impossible dream - it was selling old toys which made silly prices on e-bay , which allowed me to '' invest '' equally silly money on Leicas etc ! Much more fun than static toy cars !
dee
It was not so long ago - a year , that any kind of Leica style camera was an impossible dream - it was selling old toys which made silly prices on e-bay , which allowed me to '' invest '' equally silly money on Leicas etc ! Much more fun than static toy cars !
dee
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Dee, the Fed 2 to me is like a bizzarro Leica, complete with an alternate history that is no less rich and no less interesting.
The Kiev is also a bizzarro Contax, although I doubt getting a real Contax would make me much happier than I am with the Kiev already.
The Kiev is also a bizzarro Contax, although I doubt getting a real Contax would make me much happier than I am with the Kiev already.
dee
Well-known
Yes - the Kiev 2/3 is as close as I need to go to a Contax , it's much closer to the original - but the Fed 1 has none of the delicay of my Leica II - i like the Bizzaro concept !
As my ASdee has real problems with Cyrillc writing I am much more comfortable with Leica , or readable , engraved pretenders - now That's Bizzaro !!!
I can go along with the richness of the USSR legacy ... Fed 2 etc ...
But ''I '' can only fully resolve / accept more direct Leica derivatives - Zorki S and Zenit S , writing not withstanding , are more real than Fed 2 - of even Leica IIIc !!! It's because when I HOLD them , they are ''the same ''- "" I "" seem to be sensitve to the tiniest alteration in a '' pattern '' .
It's the old problem of an ASD child being unable to accept a new blazer as ''same '' - it may be to most people , but not to me - therefore it's scary - 'cos it's unknown ...
Leica II , somehow is '' known '' ... not Leica II isn't ... though Kiev seems to have slipped in somehow !!!
For me , it's awesome having real Leicas - a 50s child's dream ... I never take them for granted - the magic continues -
One aspect of ASD is than everything is always ''new '' like the brain switches off then on - so each time I see / touch my Leicas and USSR family , the magic is there .
Maybe , i am sounding REALLY STUPID now !
dee
As my ASdee has real problems with Cyrillc writing I am much more comfortable with Leica , or readable , engraved pretenders - now That's Bizzaro !!!
I can go along with the richness of the USSR legacy ... Fed 2 etc ...
But ''I '' can only fully resolve / accept more direct Leica derivatives - Zorki S and Zenit S , writing not withstanding , are more real than Fed 2 - of even Leica IIIc !!! It's because when I HOLD them , they are ''the same ''- "" I "" seem to be sensitve to the tiniest alteration in a '' pattern '' .
It's the old problem of an ASD child being unable to accept a new blazer as ''same '' - it may be to most people , but not to me - therefore it's scary - 'cos it's unknown ...
Leica II , somehow is '' known '' ... not Leica II isn't ... though Kiev seems to have slipped in somehow !!!
For me , it's awesome having real Leicas - a 50s child's dream ... I never take them for granted - the magic continues -
One aspect of ASD is than everything is always ''new '' like the brain switches off then on - so each time I see / touch my Leicas and USSR family , the magic is there .
Maybe , i am sounding REALLY STUPID now !
dee
Nando
Well-known
I don't think you are sounding stupid. I find your perspective to be quite interesting Dee and I can somewhat relate to your situation. I had a student with ASD a couple of years ago that exhibited very similar behaviour to what you are describing to us. He is quite the graphic artist and an absolute wizard at creating beautiful vector images from scratch using Corel Draw. However, he had a lot of difficulty creating bitmap images or adjusting to different vector software like Adobe Illustrator. He had tremendous difficulty with social interactions and we feared that this would prevent somebody from hiring him. Luckily he was able to find a job with a local printing and advertising firm that recognized his talent and where he can spend his day creating vector images, which is what he loves to do.
I have a black-paint, Zorki 1c that I love. I really like using it but unfortunately, it needs to be sent to the doctor as there are intermittent light leaks caused by the shutter getting temporarily stuck when closing and close focusing is also off. I have recently purchased a IIIf from an RFF member that is recently CLA'd by Youxin-Ye. It is in the mail. I always wanted a IIIf for sentimental reasons - my grandfather had one. It will be interesting to see what happens when I have both of these cameras.
Naturally, I think that I will be using the IIIf more once it arrives as the Zorki is temporarily sick and because I will be excited over the new camera. When the novelty of the IIIf wears off and the Zorki is back to 100%, I'm not sure what will happen. Perhaps I'll use them like my pair of Leica M cameras. I use my Leica M's as a team - each with a different type of film.
Happy shooting.
I have a black-paint, Zorki 1c that I love. I really like using it but unfortunately, it needs to be sent to the doctor as there are intermittent light leaks caused by the shutter getting temporarily stuck when closing and close focusing is also off. I have recently purchased a IIIf from an RFF member that is recently CLA'd by Youxin-Ye. It is in the mail. I always wanted a IIIf for sentimental reasons - my grandfather had one. It will be interesting to see what happens when I have both of these cameras.
Naturally, I think that I will be using the IIIf more once it arrives as the Zorki is temporarily sick and because I will be excited over the new camera. When the novelty of the IIIf wears off and the Zorki is back to 100%, I'm not sure what will happen. Perhaps I'll use them like my pair of Leica M cameras. I use my Leica M's as a team - each with a different type of film.
Happy shooting.
dee
Well-known
That sounds about right Nando - I can create Interiors because I can see them exactly in my head - and draw them in deetail - but ask me to schedule all the different parts , or order stuf from ''people '' and i am struggling . Also I watch pictures appearing - there is no sense of '' I am doing/ drawing '' they just appear somehow ! They have brain storming sessions sometimes , i find that impossible in a group - most of the time the answer is '' obvious '' , I can't understand why they have to discuss it so much - maybe I will go away on my own and bring together all that was said ...
I am never sure what's allowed in social groups - even thos on the computer - ASD is either silent , or babbles on about easy stuff - like Leica II is easy / safe .
dee
I am never sure what's allowed in social groups - even thos on the computer - ASD is either silent , or babbles on about easy stuff - like Leica II is easy / safe .
dee
mike goldberg
The Peaceful Pacific
Jocko above, used wonderful descriptive words like, "cool precision" for a Leica and "robust warmth" for the Fed. I have a IIIf coming; for sure that will be a whole new experience. My favorite FSU camera body is the Fed-2c. I like the large mushroom shaped winding knob, and I don't have to fight with the shutter speed dial. Further, I have some excellent FSU lenses.
I genuinely believe that cameras have certain personalities... in that, they affect how we feel, when we carry and use them.
I genuinely believe that cameras have certain personalities... in that, they affect how we feel, when we carry and use them.
dee
Well-known
My Fed / Leica is more a-tractor-tive somehow ...
dee
dee
Spider67
Well-known
Well the Leicas shutter and shutter release button is a charm...It's RF patch is somewhat....well "different": I fixed it with a red filter which transforms my Leica (also a 70's kids dream!) into a daylight street camera.
Then there are my FSU's: a Fed 3 very trustworthy witha good lens unfortunately it has developed slight banding. My Zorki C where cocking tzhe shutter gives you the same feeling as if you were cocking a percussion pistols cock. Both have clerly visble and therefore very comfortable RF patches. And the there is my Kiev 4AM, feels great. made great pics (when used with great lenses...but is sometimes utterly unreliable!.....Luckily I have a Bessa R, that's a different story...
Then there are my FSU's: a Fed 3 very trustworthy witha good lens unfortunately it has developed slight banding. My Zorki C where cocking tzhe shutter gives you the same feeling as if you were cocking a percussion pistols cock. Both have clerly visble and therefore very comfortable RF patches. And the there is my Kiev 4AM, feels great. made great pics (when used with great lenses...but is sometimes utterly unreliable!.....Luckily I have a Bessa R, that's a different story...
wolves3012
Veteran
Jocko summed it all up nicely for me. The other reason is that I've only just bought a Leica. I don't doubt the build quality of the Leica but it was way more expensive. There is, for me, an attraction to making pictures with a camera that's cheap and finding the pictures are actually of high quality. Value-for-money goes to the FSU any day.
It's been a very interesting comparison between my Zorki 1, which I have dismantled totally and cleaned and lubed every single part, and the IIIC. The Zorki isn't quite as smooth physically - the chrome, for instance, is a little rougher to the touch - but it comes very close to the IIIC in terms of smoothness of winding and quietness of the shutter. The Zorki cost 1/6th as much though, lens included, as the IIIC body. The IIIC has small touches where it beats the Zorki quite easily and give an overall impression of much higher build quality, yet these aren't in things that enhance the capability as a picture-taking machine (not counting things like the slow speeds of the IIIC, of course).
It's been a very interesting comparison between my Zorki 1, which I have dismantled totally and cleaned and lubed every single part, and the IIIC. The Zorki isn't quite as smooth physically - the chrome, for instance, is a little rougher to the touch - but it comes very close to the IIIC in terms of smoothness of winding and quietness of the shutter. The Zorki cost 1/6th as much though, lens included, as the IIIC body. The IIIC has small touches where it beats the Zorki quite easily and give an overall impression of much higher build quality, yet these aren't in things that enhance the capability as a picture-taking machine (not counting things like the slow speeds of the IIIC, of course).
marke
Well-known
And Wolves3012, you've summed it up nicely for me!
But I started with a Zorki 1e, and just last month. Funny thing is, I NEVER thought I would be loving the bottom loaders before I got the Zorki. Then the spell was cast upon me, and the lure of a Leica LTM was to hard to resist. I have never ONCE had a problem loading these cameras, and have done it with (freehand) trimmed leaders and withOUT cutting the leader. Not once have I needed to resort to taking off the lens or using the card method.
My IIIF RD is clearly built better than my Zorki 1, but I still want to keep the Zorki for it's own...personality. Although, since getting the IIIF RD, I haven't even fired one shot in the Zorki, which still sits with 15 more frames to go.
The other thing was that the metal edges for the RF/RF on the Zorki ended up scratching my eyeglasses. The Leica's plastic frame around these windows prevents that.
I was fortunate to get both cameras with shutter curtains in great shape and shutter speeds that seesm to be functioning quite well. I would be curious to know how much better the contrast would be on my Leica if I were to get the RF cleared up, but I can't seem to pry it from my hands!
wolves3012 said:
But I started with a Zorki 1e, and just last month. Funny thing is, I NEVER thought I would be loving the bottom loaders before I got the Zorki. Then the spell was cast upon me, and the lure of a Leica LTM was to hard to resist. I have never ONCE had a problem loading these cameras, and have done it with (freehand) trimmed leaders and withOUT cutting the leader. Not once have I needed to resort to taking off the lens or using the card method.
My IIIF RD is clearly built better than my Zorki 1, but I still want to keep the Zorki for it's own...personality. Although, since getting the IIIF RD, I haven't even fired one shot in the Zorki, which still sits with 15 more frames to go.
The other thing was that the metal edges for the RF/RF on the Zorki ended up scratching my eyeglasses. The Leica's plastic frame around these windows prevents that.
I was fortunate to get both cameras with shutter curtains in great shape and shutter speeds that seesm to be functioning quite well. I would be curious to know how much better the contrast would be on my Leica if I were to get the RF cleared up, but I can't seem to pry it from my hands!
dee
Well-known
I was interested by wolves reply to a comparison between a Leica IIIc and Zorki 1, in that I have a twin cla IIIc and rebuilt Zorki 1 / Fed 1 , together with Oleged fed 1 and moscowphoto '' copy Leicas '' Zorki 1 [ ASdee overkill ]
This is something that I have noticed on specific Zorki 1 [ or Zorki S ] Fed 1 - very close indeed to the quietness and smoothness of my IIIc '' twins '' ... with finish differences well disguised in the totally rechromed and black painted moscow Copy Leicas .
Certainly as good to use , though the Leica has an elusive quality of excellence which the Zorkis cannot be expected to match ...
dee
This is something that I have noticed on specific Zorki 1 [ or Zorki S ] Fed 1 - very close indeed to the quietness and smoothness of my IIIc '' twins '' ... with finish differences well disguised in the totally rechromed and black painted moscow Copy Leicas .
Certainly as good to use , though the Leica has an elusive quality of excellence which the Zorkis cannot be expected to match ...
dee