Customer loyalty and the "local shop"

"We are fortunate to have a very good used camera dealer nearby."

Bob, I'd love to know who this is... I go to Colonial for film, paper, some inkjet paper when I need it and all my E6 is done there. Are you talking about Marshall's in Auburndale? He has so much film stuff it's just fun to look it over. I buy a fair amount from him used, since you can handle it all, negotiate price and get a warranty.
 
paulfitz76 said:
"We are fortunate to have a very good used camera dealer nearby."

Bob, I'd love to know who this is...
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Greg Bryant at Orlando Camera Exchange on north side of Fairbanks in Winter Park, just off I-4, right down past Skycraft. Open Tuesday through Saturday from around 9-10 to around 5 or so. Does not take credit cards. Real easy to get along with and do business with. Don't be offended if you walk in the store, are looking around, and he ignores you. Greg figures if you have a question, you will ask. Once you ask, he will chat with you until closing time. http://orlandocamerexchange.com/default.aspx
 
I buy film and chemicals all the time at the local camera store here in Fort Wayne, Indiana. They mostly sell digital stuff now, but they keeps film and BW chemicals for the students. I actually bought my digital cameras from them because they charged about the same as the mail order place, and the people who own the local store have done a lot to help me over the years.

I was in there a couple weeks ago, and the owner told me that a man had come in to buy one of the Olympus micro 4/3 cameras. This was right after they came out and the store was getting them in only one or two at a time because Olympus couldn't supply more than that due to demand. One had just come in that morning, and it was still sealed in the box. They didn't have a display model because people were buying them as fast as they arrived. The customer wanted to look at it, so the store owner (he also helps customers) gets it out for the man to see. The man liked it and wanted to buy one, but he didn;t want THAT one! Why not? Because it wasn't new in the box anymore! Serious! He refused to buy it, and the store had no other to sell him so he went and bought it mail order. Dumbass!
 
The last bit of new camera gear I ever bought was from a local shop on West 17th Street in Manhattan (17th St. Photo, ironically one block away from Adorama!), in early 2002. I bought my entire Hexar RF system from them–two bodies, three lenses, and two flash units. I walked the talk here, and yet they disappeared within a few years. (Part of this was from post-9/11 economic fallout.) I believe they still have an online presence, although the brick-and-mortar part is long-gone.

Of course, I've done so well with the gear I bought from them that I haven't had much need to buy new gear (the only new "digital" gear I bought (my Minolta DS 5400 film scanner) was a few years later, from another (bigger) nearby shop, which also went belly-up a year or two ago.

I am a believer in Buying Local, but only up to a point. In terms of buying film, about the only rationalization I have on the "buy local" front is that, since I'm mostly shooting Kodak these days, most of my money goes to Rochester. 😉

And, B & H and Adorama are the proverbial subway ride away. What's a guy to do?

Edit: Chris, I've heard that before, too, and it sucks royally.


- Barrett
 
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I source from a mix: online stores, forums, and my local store. Well not exactly local, EP Levine's is in the docks area, but they're the only real Leica store in downtown Boston. It's an old-fashioned kind of place that's been rejuvenated by a new(ish) partner ownership, one of whom is Mike Bard, a former manager at another store in the Boston suburbs. I was one of many loyal customers who followed Mike to his new business.

They sell digital and film and have a good demographic in customers, many professionals shop there, serious amateurs too, as well as the more casual type of customer. The last things I bought there were my MP3 camera and a Gitzo tripod, both at good competitive prices. The downside is Massachusetts sales tax but it's worth it to support local business. I do my best to steer business to Mike or Cole who works in sales there. If you live in the area give them a visit they're at 23 Drydock Ave. and it's on the Silver line.
 
We don't have much in the way of local camera shops here in New Orleans. They all pretty much stock the same stuff as Best Buy. Only one stocks film supplies/developer (Moldaner's) and I try to buy from there as often as possible, as it's a small venture and has good staff who are very knowledgeable and don't get angry or talk down to you when you just come in to buy a couple of rolls of film or developer, unlike the big Metairie camera stores.

I find it hard to buy anything more than film locally due to inflated prices. A certain store in metairie (one guess which) sells rolls of tri-x for $12/each, and a 77mm house brand polarizing filter can be had for as cheap as $130 (+tax, roughly $142 total, for a filter).

I'd support local camera shops more if it were feasible or they offered me something I couldn't get for cheaper online.

Edit: There is a local film place, specializing in fibre paper, developers, films, etc that I like to support called the Dark Room. Unfortunately they stopped selling their expired film in store, opting to put it on ebay. I miss getting film that expired the week before for 50% off, which is why I have so many rolls of Efke 25/50 and HP5.
 
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Bob Michaels said:
I make it a point that I will never ask to see a product there and then buy it on line. If I look or touch it there, and then buy it, I feel an obligation to buy it there. That is just fair.
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This is what I'm getting at. Why do you feel the obligation to buy a product just because you have touched it or looked at it?
Or am I misunderstanding something here? Of course, I'm talking about display items, which IMO are there to be looked at and handled.
Asking the store clerk to open up a box just so you can get your greasy fingerprints all over a new item it is a different story altogether.
 
A local shop takes the time to have items available for your scrutiny in your area. That costs money that the online shop doesn't spend.

If you value this service, buy from your local shop. Otherwise, buy online, and eventually the local shop will disappear.

But to waste a shopkeeper's time handling his merchandise, and asking questions, without any intention of doing business, is rude. The display item is there to sell HIS merchandise, not to provide a community service. If one believes that it IS a community service, I respectfully suggest that you open your own "camera fondling boutique" and support it with your own money.
 
Jamie123 said:
This is what I'm getting at. Why do you feel the obligation to buy a product just because you have touched it or looked at it?
Or am I misunderstanding something here? Of course, I'm talking about display items, which IMO are there to be looked at and handled.
Asking the store clerk to open up a box just so you can get your greasy fingerprints all over a new item it is a different story altogether.
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Jamie: I realize that the merchant went to significant expense to 1) pay for the store rent and other costs, 2) pay the wages of the clerk whose time I am taking, and 3) to pay for the item that is there in inventory. My logic applies the same to display, boxed or even merchandise on the used shelf. It even relates to taking up the clerks time to discuss the merits of an item because he spent time learning it or went to a training session even if the item was never taken off the shelf for me.
 
Bob Michaels said:
Jamie: I realize that the merchant went to significant expense to 1) pay for the store rent and other costs, 2) pay the wages of the clerk whose time I am taking, and 3) to pay for the item that is there in inventory. My logic applies the same to display, boxed or even merchandise on the used shelf. It even relates to taking up the clerks time to discuss the merits of an item because he spent time learning it or went to a training session even if the item was never taken off the shelf for me.
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Yes, and I went to significant expense to pay for my photographic equipment and spent a lot of time and money practicing my skills. Still I don't think a client is obligated to hire me just because I took the time to show them my portfolio and put together an estimate.

I'm not trying to change your opinion it's just that I find this notion a bit skewed.

I think customer loyalty is not something that is earned with a one-time "performance" by a merchant. To me it is earned with giving the customer the feeling that the store will be there to help him no matter what problems may occur with the product at a later time.
So in other words, the premium I pay when buying local is not for the time the merchant has given me to make his sales pitch, it's for the time I will potentially occupy AFTER I have made the purchase. This is something I will not get if I buy online.

btw, I usually buy my film from pro labs and my photographic equipment from pro stores with pro warranty. I have noticed that in my city all camera stores aimed at consumers charge anywhere from 30-50% more than the pro stores (like $e.g. 6k for a $4k camera). The pro stores in turn are about 10% more expensive than the cheap online electronics stores but they provide a better service and warranty.
 
The person who loses out the most with the present day business model is the young (or new) photographer who has noplace to ask all the usual questions. Camera stores used to have a coffee pot and some chairs, the owner's wife (or one of the regular customers'e wives) would often bring in a plate of home made cookies. There were always a few older guys (most chicks didn't become photographers back then, they baked the cookies) willing to explain the finer points of developer agitation or how to meter in a difficult lighting situation. Nobody ever thought about the possible dangers of cigarette smoke, or even pipe or cigar smoke. Lungs or lenses, we all lived in a smoke filled environment and it was just reality. Those smoke belching chimnies on the factories meant that people were working, which meant that they could buy cameras and film. That was a good thing.
 
I try to frequent my local shop (Camera & Darkroom in Albuquerque) about 50/50 with ordering chemicals and other darkroom supplies online from Freestyle. I feel that to be a fair compromise.

I was intent on making a last-minute trip to Colorado some weeks ago and visited C & D to pick up some filters for my Lumix G1; I had to stand through the usual "lecture" from the owner about the proper use of polarizers. Not a great people person, that guy, which seems odd considering the business he's in. But I continue to support my local camera store because I'd rather have such a store available, even with a jerk of an owner, rather than have to mail order for everything.

~Joe
 
Al Kaplan said:
The person who loses out the most with the present day business model is the young (or new) photographer who has noplace to ask all the usual questions.
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I don't agree. The young/new photographer now has the internet where he can ask all the usual and unusual questions he can imagine.
 
Jamie, that's IF he can imagine those questions. To me it was like having a bunch of teachers. Very often I'd get invited to somebody's darkroom so they could show me exactly how they did something. A friend of mine who knew Gene Smith and spent time in his darkroom taught me a lot about ferracyaniding techniques. An afternoon in Jerry Uelsmann's darkroom, actually WATCHING him, having him there to explain and to answer questions, probably saved me several days and 500 sheets of paper when I wanted to learn about combining images from several negatives seamlessly, and how to combine both negative and positive images in one print. This was well over 30 years before Photoshop came along and everybody got on the internet.
 
Don't Whinge!

Don't Whinge!

There are some unattractive concepts surfacing here.

"I don't owe anybody anything"
"I can use up somebody's time and facilities without any responsibility"
"I want it NOW"
"I want it at the cheapest price"

Some think loyalty or mutual support is the way the world should operate.
Some think the individual is an island with no need to connect with community
Some are happy to use up a local resource without giving anything back by way of support.

OK. Have it your own way. But don't whinge when the on-line discounters with no service or support are the only game in town.

And while I'm having a rant, I just plain don't understand how people can contemplate (and do) spend thousands of dollars on camera equipment yet search the internet for films to save cents per roll, even canvassing combining orders from overseas rather than buying from local stockists.
In the end the same thing will happen - you'll have no choice but to buy in bulk on the internet from someone who doesn't know you and doesn't care about you. It's happening right now, folks.
 
Jamie123 said:
Yes, and I went to significant expense to pay for my photographic equipment and spent a lot of time and money practicing my skills. Still I don't think a client is obligated to hire me just because I took the time to show them my portfolio and put together an estimate.
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Jamie: maybe the better analogy would be the potential commercial client who has you create some great ways to photographically convey their message by developing a theme, finding great shooting locations, unique lighting techniques, shooting angles, etc. and then goes and hires someone who is cheaper because they do not have your vision or invested the time that you did.

We both agree that you do not have to buy from a local photo merchant just because they are there. It is just when that local merchant contributes something that it becomes unfair to buy from someone who is cheaper simply because they do not have the expense of making that contribution.
 
Jamie123 said:
I don't agree. The young/new photographer now has the internet where he can ask all the usual and unusual questions he can imagine.
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Do you really think the Internet can fully replace human contact? Are we that isolated? I think I learned more just from the second hand smoke oozing thru my skin in those days, then in an Internet chat. But this IS an interesting Internet chat, eh?
 
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