CV Heliar 15mm M/LTM or not?

[funnyfish]

I have a BESSA-R and a 35mm Color Skopar F2.5 lens (LTM). I love them both.

Recently however I have been drooling over the 15mm Heliar. Last week I went to a camera shop and had a look at one (LTM - Silver) as well as mounting it + finder on my camera etc. I have to say I felt a bit disappointed by it. It didn't feel as sturdy as my existing lens and I found bobbing between the add on finder and the camera viewfinder (for the exposure) rather awkward. I don't mind that it isn't coupled as happy to zone focus but wonder if I can make do without filters - even if only to avoid scratching the lens.

So, a few questions for you all:

1. Will I just get used to using the two fnders for framing/exposure or am I missing a trick here?
2. Is the Heliar lighter because it is less well made?
3. Should I get the LTM or is the M worth the extra?
4. Is the black version the same build quality?
5. Should I buy a 50mm instead?

 

[daveleo]

I had the (LTM) CV 15mm on my Bessa-T for a long while. Loved it.
Zone focused at f5.6 or 8.0 and used the external finder.
Most fun lens (on a 35mm film camera) I ever had.
Felt just as good as the CV 35mm lens I also had.
I used the LTM / M-adapter to the Bessa-T.


EDIT: don't understand how you jump from 15mm to 50mm - that's a long jump !

 

[robbeiflex]

I enjoy the Heliar immensely, just looking through that wonky finder is fun in itself. I only use it a few times per year but those tend to be the most fun photography days I have of the year. It's slow, so I tend to use it almost exclusively outdoors. The switching back and forth between the viewfinders is a pain, so I tend to set initially and only change exposure settings if the light has visibly changed, or I use sunny 16.

Am I the only one, or do others also end up somehow getting their nose print in the camera finder when using the external one?

 

[nikonosguy]

dag has a nice adapter for finder and other -- double cold shoe

 

[mdarnton]

I had a LTM version when they first came out, then sold it when I thought I was out of Leica forever. Then when I came back, I had the choice of LTM or M, and bought another LTM.

Why? Because it's really hard to focus wrong, even wide open, so that isn't an issue, and I liked the smaller size of the LTM version (you can wear it under a jacket, for instance). I prefer the plastic finder, too--it sticks in my shoe more securely and I don't worry about losing it; the metal ones I tape in with electrical tape, which is a bother.

I don't find the mechanical quality short of anything--it's a simpler design than other lenses, and there's really not much to go wrong, so there's no need for bulk. If there's a bad aspect it's that the lens cap doesn't like to stay on as much as I'd like it to. A little strip of rough tape out of sight on the bottom flange of the "hood" helps it stay in place better.

Another reason I got the LTM is that for trips I've taken just the 15 and a collapsible 50/3.5 on either a Fed or now a Leica IIIa. It's a great travel combo when space is tight.

Exposure? Set it and forget it. Only check when the situation has definitely changed.

Fair warning: I don't get a whole lot of use out of it. The viewpoint is pretty extreme. Check the appropriate Flickr group ( http://www.flickr.com/groups/heliar ) and you'll see that many of the pix people make with it are confusingly crowded with little stuff and not that good, or alternately, long on gimmick, short on taste. It's a hard lens to use well, and tends towards being the optical version of HDR in the wrong hands.

 

[JRminox]

I chose the LTM version because it focuses down to 0.3 meter (One foot). It is well built. I love this lens, this is the one I chose to go rim to rim in the Grand Canyon, light weight, compact & sharp.

 

[umcelinho]

1) Will I just get used to using the two fnders for framing/exposure or am I missing a trick here? -> you will only need the external one, just use zone focusing, hyperfocal and it's good to go.
2) Is the Heliar lighter because it is less well made? -> the 35mm v4 Summicron is lighter, that kind of answers the question 😉
3) Should I get the LTM or is the M worth the extra? ->you can get the M version but it wont fit the Bessa-R
4) Is the black version the same build quality? -> yep
Should I buy a 50mm instead?

 

[CrisR]

I've had both, both are great, the M version looks better and the focus tab is nicer to use, but both produce the same images.

Set the exposure, zone focus and forget, just frame and click

 

[gwg]

I also have just stopped using the camera finder when using this lens. If the exposure changes a lot / I need to move fast, I change the camera to aperture priority and just use the external with hyperfocal. Nearly point and shoot that way! No complaints on build quality from my side either and the small size complements my Summarit 35 perfectly.

I'm also a bit puzzled by the alternative of a 50mm - you'll get a lot more use out of a 50 I'd imagine (I certainly do), so that might be consideration. In fact if it's the only other lens you're planing to get, I'd probably go for a fast 50 (like the wonderful VC Nokton 1.5 LTM) to cover things like portraiture etc. The 15mm is a lot of fun but really a niche lens.

 

[funnyfish]

Thanks to ALL for the helpful comments.

Re the 50mm question, I suppose I should have mentioned that I am 'on the rebound' from having bought a 75mm Heliar a couple of years ago. I thought it would be good for portraits. I never got on with it - found focusing hard (and then it got nicked anyway).

So all I have is the 35mm - I'm now thinking maybe the 15mm is more of a '3rd lens' than a '2nd lens'?

Many thanks to all again.

 

[dct]

[...]So all I have is the 35mm - I'm now thinking maybe the 15mm is more of a '3rd lens' than a '2nd lens'?[...]

That's correct. I also bought a 28/3.5, a 50/2.5 and later then the 15/4.5. Still happy: Details see other posts I concur.

 

[traveler_101]

Thanks to ALL for the helpful comments.

So all I have is the 35mm - I'm now thinking maybe the 15mm is more of a '3rd lens' than a '2nd lens'?

Many thanks to all again.

Hi funnyfish,

in the event you are still reading this thread: 15 or 50 depends on what you wish to shoot. Spatial relationships between building and street or between road and distant landscape, for example, are the province of the 15mm. It is a great lens for shooting a city--once you learn how to use it. Otherwise it is not so good. Keep in mind that if you have people in a shot with the 15mm they need to be in the center of the frame; otherwise they will be distorted. I love the 15, but it a "specialty" lens; if you are really interested in that kind of shooting you should get it right away. The 35 covers your "normal" lens needs.

 

[philipaloft]

You asked about whether or not to go with ltm or M-mount.
If there's ever a chance that you might end up using this lens adapted to digital, go with screw mount.
I use mine on a Nex ( 22.5 mm equiv.) and the screw mount allowed me to fine tune infinity focus on the Nex. The digital camera allows very exacting reviews of shots taken, and having seen that the back of the 15mm lens was just a hair too far away from the sensor, I was able to bring it in to be at the correct place by grinding off a tiny amount off the ltm to M adapter. It didn't amount to any more than rubbing it around on 600grit autobody sandpaper on a sheet of glass ( for flatness ) and ended up taking the chrome finish off one face back to the brass. Kindof a hassle, but the screwthread setup allowed that to be possible and now I don't give it another thought.
Changing the thickness of the adapter even a little will move the alignment of lettering on the lens away from topside, but it's more important to optimize the lens' performance.
Philip

 

[rbelyell]

well, with great respect to whats gone before, let me offer a couple of different opinions.

on the 15, ive had it in ltm and sold it. i find it a 'specialty' lens. yes it can be 'fun', but when adding to a one lens kit, it seems superfluous. personally, i was disappointed in the IQ, and i know that puts me in the minority. tbh, again as a matter of opinion not fact, i much prefer the similarly priced, similarly compact, cv 21/4. i find it much more 'useful' and the IQ much superior. and it can easily be used hyperfocally for street work. there is ample FOV room between 21 and 35 to make it a useful addition to your bag.

now about adding a 50 to a 35 single lens kit, again i must demur from the majority. i personally just dont find theres enough of a FOV difference to have a 35/50 2 lens kit. just take two steps forward and your at 50. now a 21/35/75 FOV kit, thats great and you will note the differences more obviously and naturally be able to choose a lens better matched to a situation or goal.

again, these are opinions, and are not intended to offend anyone.
tony

 

[Robert Lai]

I've had both - prefer LTM

I've had both - prefer LTM

In case there's anyone out there who still reads this thread, here's my experience. I had the 15 in LTM initially. Very tiny, and that accounts for the light weight. Not a cheaply built lens by any measure. Guess focusing is fine for this focal length. I bought the double compartment case which allows the lens and finder to be stored together - very convenient.

Then I went deluxe and bought the M version. Yes, it accommodates filters, but it is so much larger in diameter compared to the tiny LTM version. The RF coupling is nice, but ultimately not so useful. The depth of field even wide open at 4.5 is pretty deep. Being a native M mount lens, I couldn't use it on my little LTM cameras, which is a shame.

Ultimately, I got rid of both, as I just don't use this focal length often. If I want superwide, I find I get along with a 20/21mm lens far better. If I had to do it again, I would get the LTM version. The tiny size makes it pocketable with a Leica IIF, for example.

 

[MiniMoke]

I use my 15mm LTM Super Heliar on the X-E1 at an equivalent focal length of about 22 or 23mm which suits me fine. As a real 15mm it would see much less use, but on the APS-C sensor it makes real sense.

I had one a year ago but sold it along with my old X-E1 when I had to get rid of a lot of my stuff, but I always longed to have one again. Now I went and bought the same stuff again, complete with a Jupiter 8.

Of course, with the EVF coupled or not coupled focus is not important, and well, everything is almost always in focus with this marvel.

 

[shortstop]

A friend gave me a 15 mm CV. Another a 21 mm CV. I used them for few dozen of shots only. So discovered I'm a wide angle/ normal lens man. But from 28 mm on. Rarely use tele (short tele for portraiture). Prefer quiet view. And I like very much 75 mm of my Rolleiflex. Not so wide, but not like a 50 mm in 135.
That's all for me.