CZJ 5cm 2.0 (1938) collapsible, in Contax mount

[raid]

The post-War Opton versions may have the best coatings of any Zeiss 5cm 1.5. Maybe also the best QC. I may have one in Contax mount.


"regular" CZJ 5cm 1.5:

This image was taken with a 1937~1938 CZJ 5cm 1.5 (Gatlinburg, Tennessee). Fuji Reala 100.

 

[former member]

I have three post-war 50/1.5 West German Sonnars in good shootng condition, two more that are parted put due to cement issues. I also traded off a perfect one for a J-3 that I wanted really bad.

They are close to the wartime Sonnars. BUT the early synthetic cement breaks down. The older ones using Canada Balsam have survived.

 

[raid]

I have three post-war 50/1.5 West German Sonnars in good shootng condition, two more that are parted put due to cement issues. I also traded off a perfect one for a J-3 that I wanted really bad.

They are close to the wartime Sonnars. BUT the early synthetic cement breaks down. The older ones using Canada Balsam have survived.

This is good to know. So Opton lenses used synthetic cement and older lenses used Canada Balsam? Is this correct?

 

[former member]

The Opton lenses are older, and use Canada Balsam. Zeiss dropped the "Opton" from later lenses. The Post-War West German Sonnars were introduced with "Opton" in the name instead of Jena.

 

[raid]

Oh. I misunderstood what you said, as I was thinking of pre-war CZJ lenses versus post-war Opton lenses.

 

[james.liam]

I'm not all that familiar with these pre-War optics, but the ƒ/1.5 Zeiss Sonnar is an optically superior lens to the ƒ/2?

 

[former member]

I'm not all that familiar with these pre-War optics, but the ƒ/1.5 Zeiss Sonnar is an optically superior lens to the ƒ/2?

You are more likely to find an F1.5 5cm Sonnar in better optical condition than the F2 version because Hard glass was used for the front element. The 5cm F2 Sonnar uses the same soft glass for the front element as the Summar, Summitar, and Xenon.

Find a 5cm F2 Sonnar in good optical condition, every bit as good as the F1.5 lens.

1934 5cm F2 Sonnar on the M Monochrom, wide-open.



Skyllaney is using this optical formula for the upcoming Bertele Sonnar, which I will be getting one of the pre-production lenses.

 

[james.liam]

Brian, how would you say the rendering of the Nikon 5cm/1.4 Sonnar differs from these pre-War German versions, aside from the coatings/flare suppression?

 

[raid]

You are more likely to find an F1.5 5cm Sonnar in better optical condition than the F2 version because Hard glass was used for the front element. The 5cm F2 Sonnar uses the same soft glass for the front element as the Summar, Summitar, and Xenon.

Find a 5cm F2 Sonnar in good optical condition, every bit as good as the F1.5 lens.



.

My recently purchased CZJ 5cm 2 has very clean glass from someone who said that it was his father's camera on his Contax I. I agree that this is an excellent lens.

 

[raid]

I'm not all that familiar with these pre-War optics, but the ƒ/1.5 Zeiss Sonnar is an optically superior lens to the ƒ/2?

This is often mentioned as a rare event in general, but it holds true for the CZJ 5cm lenses.

 

[former member]

Brian, how would you say the rendering of the Nikon 5cm/1.4 Sonnar differs from these pre-War German versions, aside from the coatings/flare suppression?

The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 Sonnar formula lens was revised with larger diameter optics somewhere around 33xxxx SN.
In general- the Nikkor 5cm F1.4 has more spherical aberration/ harsher Bokeh than the pre-war Sonnars.

The Nikkor 5cm F2 has very similar rendition to the pre-war Sonnar 5cm F2. The color rendition is different due to the coatings of the Nikkor.

 

[former member]

Nikkor 5cm F1.4, wide-open.

 

[furcafe]

Pretty much every 35mm-using professional who cared about lens quality was a Contax shooter back in the '30s (Eisie was an exception.) I can't rattle off names except for Robert Capa and Merlyn Severn of Britain's Picture Post (probably nobody here has ever heard of her except me, but she was kind of a big deal back in the day)... still, there were a lot of them, and much of this came down to the fact that Leica didn't have anything that even approached the optical performance of the 50mm f/1.5 and 85mm f/2 Sonnars. I think there's a whole thread about this over on the Jason Schneider subforum...

Per TenEleven's earlier post, Walker Evans (as in his sneaky subway shots), Ansel Adams (when he deigned to use 35mm), & Gordon Parks are just a few other Contax users. I think Contax may have been the "house" system at Life magazine.

 

[furcafe]

The Contax I was released in 1932 and anticipating the release of the camera Zeiss of course already made lenses for it since 1931 - this includes some small one-off batches of the same lenses for Leica - I assume to be able to test/prototype them without having a camera body ready. This is all in their manufacturing books. So the claim that "there was no Contax then" is counter-factual.

Secondly, the Contax I is not the most user friendly camera, for sure. Also certainly not most the reliable. That didn't stop people like Ansel Adams and a couple of others from making use of them, however. Zeiss realized the issues and quickly followed up with the Contax II in 1936, which in a world first combined the range- and viewfinder into a single eye-piece which sped the composing and focusing steps up enormously.

This model, then saw wide-spread adoption among many popular photographers such as Capa, Ansel Adams, O'Keefe, Walker Evans, also the entire curio of Life photographers including Gene Smith (who also shot Leica) etc.

Lastly, image courtesy of RFFs own dexdog, here's a Zeiss original LTM Lens from 1933. The knurling had been criminally filed to make it fit on a M3... Anyway to say that there was no Zeiss glass for Leica or that HCB couldn't have used it just does not represent the facts on the ground.

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10 (!) years ago, I had the privilege & pleasure of borrowing dexdog's LTM 5cm/1.5 Sonnars (as pictured). Photos here.

IIRC, the barrel was surprisingly heavy (like an upsized black Contax mount lens from the same time period) & you can see the brass beneath the chrome & black paint; I suppose I was used to handling the post-WWII LTM Sonnars that had lightweight alloy barrels.

 

[former member]

The Lens above- seemed to be more of an extended test, was a production batch of 50 lenses.
Dexdog also loaned it to me. One thing of note: the helical was exposed when focused close. This would have been a problem for regular production, dirt would have gotten into the helical under regular use, and would require partial teardown to clean.

 

[dexdog]

Furcafe, you have definately taken better photos with my lens than I ever have!

 

[furcafe]

The Lens above- seemed to be more of an extended test, was a production batch of 50 lenses.
Dexdog also loaned it to me. One thing of note: the helical was exposed when focused close. This would have been a problem for regular production, dirt would have gotten into the helical under regular use, and would require partial teardown to clean.

Yes, I remember the exposed helical! It looked cool, kind of like a collapsible lens, but also struck me as a problem for exposure to the elements.

 

[furcafe]

Furcafe, you have definately taken better photos with my lens than I ever have!

Thanks, man, that was a cool lens to borrow!

 

[raid]

Dexdog: you have lent me at least one lens. I recall the Canon 85/1.8 in black. Did you also lend me the 50/1.5 Nokton for the Prominent or was it a Canon 50/0.95 ltm along with a Canon 7z?

 

[dexdog]

Raid, I think that it was all of the above! That was a long time ago though, so I could be mistaken.