Dear Leica: You win

I've gone thru two Leica M series cameras. They are respected for all the stated reasons. My go to RF and has been for about 5 years is a black R4a. Good build, the camera never misses a beat and like an M5, 6, 7, 8, 9 it's got a meter. If you don't want a meter and want an M2, 3, 4 experience just get their R4. I still have my M's but I reach for the R4a. I shoot 50mm lenses and less. It's got the frame lines for 21/25/28 and even 35 which the earlier M's don't have. I chose functionality and ease of use.

from the head bartender's site

http://www.cameraquest.com/voigt4m4aintro.htm
 
try an R2A, it'll be the same price as a BGN M2 or M3, but brand new, 1/2000, aperture priority and lightmeter if you prefer to shoot manual. as other have said, the leicas are quieter and smoother, also have more precise focus, but as a tool in daily life a Bessa is a good deal. if then you miss what a Leica will offer, then it's worth going for it.

i suggested the R2A because since it's a modern camera I feel the aperture priority should be enjoyed, it can be useful in many cases. the R2 will be cheaper, also M mount but no aperture priority. i'd skip the R because it only takes LTM lenses, so it's not as versatile as an M body.

i shoot with an M4 and an R-D1 (basically a digital R3A) mostly and each have their pros and cons, i think I enjoy the M4 for the silly pleasure of being able to shoot with a camera older than me with lenses older than my parents, with no meter... but I know an R2A would be easier to shoot with.
 
msbarnes said:
.......The IIIs is my favorite so far, but far from perfect so I might keep it until I have the funds to go M. Or I might try Canon LTM so that I can use the same set of lenses. If I go canon LTM is the patch on the 7 better than the P? In general, that is.
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The viewfinder of the Canon 7/7s is quite different from the P. The 7 and 7s use projected framelines like in an M-series Leica. The P's framelines are reflected. The rangefinder patch on the 7/7s is soft-edged though, not sharp-edged like a Leica M. That being said, I find the viewfinder of the 7/7s to be much better than a P. The viewfinders of the P seemed to have aged poorly these past 50 years.

Note that not all P users will agree with me.

Jim B.
 
I was in the same situation as you. After getting the Bessa R2A I kinda felt I should have gone for a Leica or an Ikon. But after I had both in my hands I was sure I made the right choice. There is no real difference regarding viewfinder or handling. I'd rather spend the extra cash on lenses.

If you want a shooter go for the Bessa, if you think you will be lusting for the Leica mystique, well, there is no other camera that can replace that.

I'm in love with small, M, rangefinders, not Leicas. But I would definitely drop some cash on Leica lenses if I could...
 
I've had to M7s and 1 Zeiss Ikon. The Ikon was the better experience. If i had to do it all over again, i'd definitely get the Zeiss.

Get the Leica for your ego or if you need to impress the next guy.

And the Zeiss viewfinder is better than the Leica's - even the 'improved' MP finder. The Zeiss also has the (pretty significant) advantage of film loading, as well.
 
Leica seems to have everything going for it, minus the price.

The purpose of this camera is primarily for low-light, so that kind of rules out SLR's because of the mirror, and I like RF focusing anyways. (Not against SLR's...I just ordered some OM's, but as tools to serve an entirely different purpose).

There is a mystique to Leica, but I feel that they are just a level above everyone else. With SLR's I feel that there are plenty of really good options. It's not like people go OM or Canon as a Nikon alternative; however, with rangefinders I feel that everything else is a Leica alternative.

I might go Bessa and splurge more on the lenses then eventually get an M. I see great deals on M bodies and lenses hear all the time. I can't really jump on an M body without a lens and vice versa.
 
msbarnes, where in CA are you ?

One thing that this thread makes obvious, is that liking Leicas (pun intended :) ) is personal. Up here in the Bay Area there are lots of RFF members, and you could try the different cameras before buying ....

Roland.
 
Yeah, many RFF members have a suite of cameras, so maybe it would be better that I get in touch with some members around the area. That will save me time, money, and frustration. Not in the market now though!
 
msbarnes said:
Yeah, many RFF members have a suite of cameras, so maybe it would be better that I get in touch with some members around the area. That will save me time, money, and frustration. Not in the market now though!
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I would say: Pick up and try a Zeiss and a Leica. The others aren't really worth it. It's up to you whichever suits you best.. They all do the same thing in the end. Both are incredible cameras.
 
msbarnes said:
Yeah, many RFF members have a suite of cameras, so maybe it would be better that I get in touch with some members around the area. That will save me time, money, and frustration. Not in the market now though!
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Let us know when you are - always a good time for a "beer and gear". If you don't plan on a group shoot, but rather focus on an evening get-together and the beer, you'll likely find me there, too :)

Cheers,

Roland.
 
I would have said Bessas make a good option but I had three break/fail on me. Two were brand new and had to be replaced before useable. I really want to love VC Bessas but IMO they are a complete waste of money. I've just had too much go wrong with them. Perhaps I was just unlucky though...
 
machinehum said:
Wait. You're looking for a Leica substitute, and you've decided not to try the one current in-production competitor (which many people swear by)? That just seems strange.
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Two ... Zeiss and CV. However, what he's most likely saying is that he thinks only an M is going to satisfy him... so he's not going to bother with CV.
 
daveywaugh said:
I would have said Bessas make a good option but I had three break/fail on me. Two were brand new and had to be replaced before useable. I really want to love VC Bessas but IMO they are a complete waste of money. I've just had too much go wrong with them. Perhaps I was just unlucky though...
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Had an R2a for 4 years and never had an issue. Sounds like that's not everyone experience though -- certainly not yours, unfortunately. However, buying a used Leica is not guaranteed smooth sailing unless you really know the history and trust the seller.

On a personal note, I strongly encourage you to take the advice of the CA RFF members who invited you to try their gear. I also thought that i would not be happy with anything less than a Leica M but when I finaly managed to get an M4 and some Leica lenses I find myself longing for an R2M or A.

The good thing about the Leica however is that I won't lose money on the sale and I finally got the bug out of my system.
 
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